The thread you mentioned is precisely why I replaced my Wix filter. Went with K&N.
If you're using a WIX oil filter read this (1 Viewer)
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bloc
SILVER Star
As noted in my sig I'm in the middle of a v8 swap. I thought I was doing good by buying OEM GM filters.. turns out they have been dissected and cost cutting has made its way into even the OEM parts for my new(ish) Vortec V8 engine.
So if you don't trust Cadillac OEM.. what then? Everything at a parts store is made by wix and fram, right?
I remember reading a thread long ago about an amsoil EaO filter basically making the used oil from a sequoia cleaner than virgin oil of the same type, while being capable of flowing more.. supposedly microglass elements are extremely efficient. Overkill?
Sorry to hear about the unplanned engine rebuild... hope wix makes things right.
So if you don't trust Cadillac OEM.. what then? Everything at a parts store is made by wix and fram, right?
I remember reading a thread long ago about an amsoil EaO filter basically making the used oil from a sequoia cleaner than virgin oil of the same type, while being capable of flowing more.. supposedly microglass elements are extremely efficient. Overkill?
Sorry to hear about the unplanned engine rebuild... hope wix makes things right.
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Boy this is depressing! I use the NAPA Gold on all my junk...
My brother goes to Thailand somewhat frequently. He says that people are quite proud of Toyota cars. Evidently jobs at Toyota are hard to get, and a source of pride for those chosen. Thailand is not China, and many feel flattered to have the opportunity to manufacture high quality components for such a well respected, and prestigious brand.
I've seen the dissection of the new filter. Is the medium used in the filter inferior to its predecessor, or did they move production to Thailand to control/mitigate costs on a new generation with technological advances?
bloc
SILVER Star
I'll edit my post. I'm talking about ACDelco parts built for GM.
That said, have seen the writeup comparing toyota filters. I wish there were enough market interest to provide filters like that for people that want them.
ppc
M Go Blue
As for the reason for cutting the filter open the argument to present to WIX.... How can any failure analysis of the engine be performed and not include examining the filter. Will or does WIX provide an analysis service to any customer with any type of engine failure or will send an observer to a test facility? I doubt that is the case so I would think that there is no legal standing argument that you cut it open so they are no longer liable.
Don't get me wrong here but what is in the statement that in the first post . "Pulled the filter and cut it to inspect, it was really dirty to only have 4000 miles on the synthetic oil and the fins were very distorted.". If the filter was excessively dirty either it was filtering effectively, was in service longer than 4000 miles or there was another point of failure in the engine causing the contamination. You may want to document the events differently in any letters you send to WIX eliminating parts of your observations that are speculative on your part. Obviously the failure would have taken place over the 4000 miles not just the one mile on the way to work. Referencing the gauge reading being normal before driving implies more of a catastrophic failure in that last one mile. OEM dash gauges are notorious for being inaccurate so I would not include that in a letter.
This same thing could happen with any brand of filter and I don't think WIX or the district manger's statements are unique or unexpected at this point including what would be expected as the initial response from Toyota. At the present time, even though you are angry, I would not be making statements about not purchasing WIX products in the future as that will hurt your chances for a positive outcome. Take the high road and state you hope that WIX steps up to the plate and does the right thing so you can continue to be a faithful customer.
Don't get me wrong here but what is in the statement that in the first post . "Pulled the filter and cut it to inspect, it was really dirty to only have 4000 miles on the synthetic oil and the fins were very distorted.". If the filter was excessively dirty either it was filtering effectively, was in service longer than 4000 miles or there was another point of failure in the engine causing the contamination. You may want to document the events differently in any letters you send to WIX eliminating parts of your observations that are speculative on your part. Obviously the failure would have taken place over the 4000 miles not just the one mile on the way to work. Referencing the gauge reading being normal before driving implies more of a catastrophic failure in that last one mile. OEM dash gauges are notorious for being inaccurate so I would not include that in a letter.
This same thing could happen with any brand of filter and I don't think WIX or the district manger's statements are unique or unexpected at this point including what would be expected as the initial response from Toyota. At the present time, even though you are angry, I would not be making statements about not purchasing WIX products in the future as that will hurt your chances for a positive outcome. Take the high road and state you hope that WIX steps up to the plate and does the right thing so you can continue to be a faithful customer.
He doesn't have a pot to piss in for a case. Wix will tell you to get bent.
I read a post by Bob the Oil Guy on his old original forum, he ran a car a without a oil filter ( some type of bypass custom bypass unit) for years with no negative on the engine. Not suggesting any one do it, but he did many off the wall experiments to try and debunk myths about oil.
SmokingRocks
hopelessly addicted to Cruisers
Sure but remember that the OP's team would have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the filter is the absolute cause of the failure.
That means that once the engine grenaded itself he would have to have a trusted independent party (a toyota dealership could work here) diagnose the issue and PROVE that the filter was the cause.
Since the 1fz-fe has had a myriad of differing issues over its life (not to mention an oil pressure gauge that is completely unreliable, I imagine the WIX team would beat that one into the ground) it would not be hard AT ALL for the WIX defense to build a case that the motor grenaded itself. The OP would have to have a qualified independent, impartial advisor test the filter, cut the filter in half and physically see the failed component that stopped all oil flow. Since the OP cut the filter in half he is hosed.
Is it possible? Yes but its risky, and regardless of the "you don't pay unless we win" lawyers which isn't necessarily true (think of WIX counter suing for defamation of product if the proof isn't enough to convince a court, then the OP could be looking at covering court cost at a minimum or worse ((Also remember that WIX likely has its own legal department dedicated to these claims)))
It has to be a SLAM DUNK in order to win, if the OP has a very good case then he has a better chance of settling in arbitration.
None of it would be easy nor cheap.
As it sounds we are way past the point of having an impartial tear down of the component. My advise would be to chalk it up to the loss column, rebuild and move on. Hate to say it...
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SmokingRocks
hopelessly addicted to Cruisers
And thats totally possible. The only way an oil filter can cause an immediate and catastrophic failure is if it suddenly and almost completely blocks oil flow. Which based on the designs of the filters is almost impossible (keep in mind I said almost)
It's much much much much more likely that something got sucked up into the filter and clogged it, (Wix won't help you there). Or that the harmonic balancer bolt was loose and the oil pump drive gear slipped and the pump stopped pumping. I'm not a defense attorney and I'm already shooting holes in this. Just saying.
It's a s***ty situation and I feel for you I just think your wasting time, energy -and possibly a lot of dough- if you try to chase this in the courts.
bloc
SILVER Star
If he ran a "bypass filter" the oil was definitely getting filtered.. just not all of it every time it flowed to the bearings/journals. It is a totally different strategy but does slowly filter oil to a very high degree. Pretty common on heavy duty diesel engines.. Actually toyota used a very unique combination full-flow and bypass filter in one canister on their 1KZ-TE diesel engine. Probably others too.
That said.. Yes, you can probably run an engine for a very long time without a "working" oil filter. As long as the engine is already broken in and you aren't dumping sand into the crank case the filter element technically shouldn't be catching very much at all. Most of the particles of metal that are a result of engine wear are extremely small. The problem comes when your filter catastrophically fails and does damage to the engine from the parts of the filter going where they shouldn't.
MANN+HUMMEL: Organisation & Management
Apparently the ultimate parent company of WIX filters is Mann-Hummel, a germany based company. (link to their website above)
They also make/own Mann and Purolator filters among others...
Since this is a large multinational corporation I really doubt that getting a lawyer involved will result in getting any assistance in paying for a rebuild. Once an attorney is involved, it goes over to their legal department, and you will become just a small bug to be squashed.
My suggestion is preparing your written statement of what happened, what the conversation was with the district mgr. regarding the missing bypass valve, photos of the filter, and a written estimate of the cost of the rebuild. Send to the district manager and ask him to elevate this to his manager. No threats at this point - just politely request their assistance in making this right.
The issue of the "wrong" filter being used is a moot point as their own engineers will know that either filter will work fine with this engine.
If they are as concerned about quality and customer satisfaction as their websites suggest, they may be willing to at least help with the cost of the rebuild.
If they refuse, then let them know jut how far your are willing to spread the word on every available media so that others can be warned as to how they choose to treat their customers who have purchased their defective products.......
Apparently the ultimate parent company of WIX filters is Mann-Hummel, a germany based company. (link to their website above)
They also make/own Mann and Purolator filters among others...
Since this is a large multinational corporation I really doubt that getting a lawyer involved will result in getting any assistance in paying for a rebuild. Once an attorney is involved, it goes over to their legal department, and you will become just a small bug to be squashed.
My suggestion is preparing your written statement of what happened, what the conversation was with the district mgr. regarding the missing bypass valve, photos of the filter, and a written estimate of the cost of the rebuild. Send to the district manager and ask him to elevate this to his manager. No threats at this point - just politely request their assistance in making this right.
The issue of the "wrong" filter being used is a moot point as their own engineers will know that either filter will work fine with this engine.
If they are as concerned about quality and customer satisfaction as their websites suggest, they may be willing to at least help with the cost of the rebuild.
If they refuse, then let them know jut how far your are willing to spread the word on every available media so that others can be warned as to how they choose to treat their customers who have purchased their defective products.......
ppc said:
This could happen with any number of different parts on our vehicles. With the amount of dishonest people out there who want others to pay for their stupidity it's reasonable that WIX would deny any liability in this since he took it upon himself to hack up the filter. Had he took it off and they found what he did the situation would more than likely be different even though they state it's the wrong filter for his truck.
ppc said:
This is the right answer. Toyota filters and all other brands can have manufacturing defects. Same goes for any other replacement parts. This is the reason warranties exist. Reading all the knee jerk reactions about never using WIX anymore is pretty funny. What do you think Toyota would say if they got a call from a guy blaming the filter for his engine losing oil pressure and is now knocking? And what then when he tells them he already cut open the filter to try and find the problem? He would be getting the same response he got from WIX. It's a crappy deal but none of you can honestly think any company would be willing to accept liability and replace an entire engine in this situation.
SmokingRocks
hopelessly addicted to Cruisers
Agreed ^^
Sorry to say but the OP went about it the wrong way when investigating the filter. Should have consulted an attorney and / or read the fine print before letting emotion take over and sawing the filter in half.
Sorry to say but the OP went about it the wrong way when investigating the filter. Should have consulted an attorney and / or read the fine print before letting emotion take over and sawing the filter in half.
SmokingRocks
hopelessly addicted to Cruisers
Also to the OP stop running the motor, any additional milage or run time negatively affects any claim you may pursue.. Pull the valve cover inspect, scope the bores, if its just bottom end bearing damage its not the end of the world. If it's just head work its not the end of the world. Hell you can even ball hone the cylinders, slap a new HG on their, get the head machined and be back on the road for about 700. To me 700-1000 is way worth it to avoid a potentially lengthy and uncertain court battle.
Add a couple hundred and you can have new bearing races for the bottom end. None of this work is that hard, just inconvenient and time consuming.
Add a couple hundred and you can have new bearing races for the bottom end. None of this work is that hard, just inconvenient and time consuming.
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jfz80
Cruisin’
I think its called curiosity and id be willing to bet most folks here would have thrown it away and a very small percentage of those that didnt would have thought to contact the mfg to do an analysis, read the fine print, or lawyer up at that point. Hidsight always makes it easier to show the path one perhaps should have taken.
I agree with most of what you posted above but man it almost sound like you work for wix LOL
jfz80
Cruisin’
Truck has been parked and run at idle one time for under a minute (that video) after a new filter was installed to verify that was the problem and oil pressure returned to normal.
- Thread starter
- #118
Yeah my investigative cutting was not to point fingers or lay the blame on anyone. It was merely to find out what was going on with my motor. Mainly to see how much bearing damage had been done.
Would someone be able to tell by looking at their filter if the bypass valve was missing in theirs?
- Thread starter
- #120
I think it would be possible but I'm not 100% on that. I will say again though I would not worry about this being an ongoing problem. I do believe WIX makes a good filter and a fluke problem could happen even with OEM.
