High steer, slee vs hellfire, Hydro assist.

[baldilocks]

Kind of rushed, nothing fancy, not quite done but thought I would play.
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Good work. I like to see hand made DIY brackets. It appears that you lengthened the track bar. My axle is out for diff repair and housing upgrades right now. I contemplate high steer as I do a good bit of rock crawling but having my assist cylinder on the factory tie rod location has worked so far. Any particular reason for going with the Slee set up when Front Range has the new casting knuckles and arms that are keyed together?

 

[ThreeEyedBandit]

Good work. I like to see hand made DIY brackets. It appears that you lengthened the track bar. My axle is out for diff repair and housing upgrades right now. I contemplate high steer as I do a good bit of rock crawling but having my assist cylinder on the factory tie rod location has worked so far. Any particular reason for going with the Slee set up when Front Range has the new casting knuckles and arms that are keyed together?

I also have ran my assist cylinder on the tie rod location for years, this is the current setup with it. Will probably "double" shear and box the tie rod in to take some force off the bolt from the assist cylinder. But first need to get it out of the garage for a bit.

If I was going to pay for Slee arms I would spend the extra for the Hellfire's. I had some extra time so I doodled these up and whittled them out one weekend.

They are similar to the Slee's but with a preload adjuster instead of shims. I wanted to reduce the interface surfaces between the arms and knuckles, only so many way to connect the dots on these knuckles. If I have problems they will be hot glued to the knuckle until I get Hellfires.

Yes, my panhard is longer, about 36" now.

 

[jcardona1]

Nice to see all these steering upgrades lately and the creative panhard mounting.

As some may have seen from my build thread, truck's been at the shop getting a steering overhaul. Something I've been wanting to do for years but just never had the time. We converted the steering from y-link to crossover, redid the panhard to match the angles, and double sheared all mounting points.

Went by the shop a few days ago and test drove it. Great improvement over the crappy y-link. Much more responsive steering and it greatly eliminated the dreaded y-link "dead spot". It's also nice to not hear the tierod clunking every time you turn the wheel. In case you're thinking of going with a y-link steering setup, just don't. It's truly awful.

Draglink and panhard are very high now, perfect angle match.

Double-sheared pitman arm

New panhard bracket at the axle

Notched frame to clear the draglink during articulation

Double-shear all the things!

 

[Wermz]

That looks great!

 

[Broski]

Nice to see all these steering upgrades lately and the creative panhard mounting.

As some may have seen from my build thread, truck's been at the shop getting a steering overhaul. Something I've been wanting to do for years but just never had the time. We converted the steering from y-link to crossover, redid the panhard to match the angles, and double sheared all mounting points.

Went by the shop a few days ago and test drove it. Great improvement over the crappy y-link. Much more responsive steering and it greatly eliminated the dreaded y-link "dead spot". It's also nice to not hear the tierod clunking every time you turn the wheel. In case you're thinking of going with a y-link steering setup, just don't. It's truly awful.

Draglink and panhard are very high now, perfect angle match.

Double-sheared pitman arm

New panhard bracket at the axle

Notched frame to clear the draglink during articulation

Double-shear all the things!

Clean work!
Best high steer I have seen on a 80

 

[Squeegee]

I got the front range knuckles on today. And overall they’re fine. I don’t love them and I don’t hate then. There’s just a lot of weirdness with them. Stuff that, in my opinion, a set of $1100 knuckles shouldn’t have.
The casting for the knuckle is great, no issues there. The arms are…. Eeeehhhhh so so. There’s a bunch of edges that needed to be de-burred and one of my arms was cut to short. There’s a spot that didn’t get touched when they machined it for the finish pass. That’s fine I guess, it’s an esthetic issue.

The bearings supplied are NTN which I’ve never heard of, it doesn’t make them bad, I was just surprised it wasn’t a koyo or a timken. The ARPs are once again, fine. They don’t have a hex head machine machined into them so you gotta do the double nut trick to install them which is… fine I guess. But they’re ARPs which is still nice.
They don’t supply washers for the 4 top studs. Which is fine, I just used the washers from the old knuckle. But weird.
The knuckles didn’t come with any instructions. So I had to ask them for the torque specs and shim recommendations. For future reference, it’s 110 ft lbs for the top, and 75 ft lbs for the bottom. They also told me that I’d likely need 1 shim per knuckle. but didn’t say where so I put the shim on the top. Instruction should probably be supplied.

My biggest issue is that they are NOT made for 80s with springs. At full lock the arms dive under the springs and if you hit a bump or flex the front end, the spring will hit the high steer arms…. So dumb. They totally could’ve machined a cutout for springs. So, word to the wise, if you’re not running coilovers, you will have to send these off to a machine shop.

They also didn’t machine the holes for the top studs big enough to fit a 19mm.. which is the size of the nut they supply. So dumb

I give them a 6/10, a C+, and a shrug of the shoulders. Up the quality of hardware, modify the machining so springs/ a 19mm socket fit, and give instructions and I’d have no complaints

 

[baldilocks]

I got the front range knuckles on today. And overall they’re fine. I don’t love them and I don’t hate then. There’s just a lot of weirdness with them. Stuff that, in my opinion, a set of $1100 knuckles shouldn’t have.
The casting for the knuckle is great, no issues there. The arms are…. Eeeehhhhh so so. There’s a bunch of edges that needed to be de-burred and one of my arms was cut to short. There’s a spot that didn’t get touched when they machined it for the finish pass. That’s fine I guess, it’s an esthetic issue.

The bearings supplied are NTN which I’ve never heard of, it doesn’t make them bad, I was just surprised it wasn’t a koyo or a timken. The ARPs are once again, fine. They don’t have a hex head machine machined into them so you gotta do the double nut trick to install them which is… fine I guess. But they’re ARPs which is still nice.
They don’t supply washers for the 4 top studs. Which is fine, I just used the washers from the old knuckle. But weird.
The knuckles didn’t come with any instructions. So I had to ask them for the torque specs and shim recommendations. For future reference, it’s 110 ft lbs for the top, and 75 ft lbs for the bottom. They also told me that I’d likely need 1 shim per knuckle. but didn’t say where so I put the shim on the top. Instruction should probably be supplied.

My biggest issue is that they are NOT made for 80s with springs. At full lock the arms dive under the springs and if you hit a bump or flex the front end, the spring will hit the high steer arms…. So dumb. They totally could’ve machined a cutout for springs. So, word to the wise, if you’re not running coilovers, you will have to send these off to a machine shop.

They also didn’t machine the holes for the top studs big enough to fit a 19mm.. which is the size of the nut they supply. So dumb

I give them a 6/10, a C+, and a shrug of the shoulders. Up the quality of hardware, modify the machining so springs/ a 19mm socket fit, and give instructions and I’d have no complaints

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Thanks for the info. Perhaps perfection of these knuckles will be an ongoing endeavor involving feedback from customers/installers. Every fault that you listed could be corrected with simple machine work during the manufacturing process. I’ve run into these sort of issues with bigger name companies. Shim thickness and location may end up being handled on an individual basis through trial and error due to variances.

I’m interested to hear back about any perceived difference in your driving experience.

 

[Squeegee]

Thanks for the info. Perhaps perfection of these knuckles will be an ongoing endeavor involving feedback from customers/installers. Every fault that you listed could be corrected with simple machine work during the manufacturing process. I’ve run into these sort of issues with bigger name companies. Shim thickness and location may end up being handled on an individual basis though trial and error due to variances.

I’m interested to hear back about any perceived difference in your driving experience.

If the panhard gets done this weekend, you’ll be the first to know!

 

[Broski]

I got the front range knuckles on today. And overall they’re fine. I don’t love them and I don’t hate then. There’s just a lot of weirdness with them. Stuff that, in my opinion, a set of $1100 knuckles shouldn’t have.
The casting for the knuckle is great, no issues there. The arms are…. Eeeehhhhh so so. There’s a bunch of edges that needed to be de-burred and one of my arms was cut to short. There’s a spot that didn’t get touched when they machined it for the finish pass. That’s fine I guess, it’s an esthetic issue.

The bearings supplied are NTN which I’ve never heard of, it doesn’t make them bad, I was just surprised it wasn’t a koyo or a timken. The ARPs are once again, fine. They don’t have a hex head machine machined into them so you gotta do the double nut trick to install them which is… fine I guess. But they’re ARPs which is still nice.
They don’t supply washers for the 4 top studs. Which is fine, I just used the washers from the old knuckle. But weird.
The knuckles didn’t come with any instructions. So I had to ask them for the torque specs and shim recommendations. For future reference, it’s 110 ft lbs for the top, and 75 ft lbs for the bottom. They also told me that I’d likely need 1 shim per knuckle. but didn’t say where so I put the shim on the top. Instruction should probably be supplied.

My biggest issue is that they are NOT made for 80s with springs. At full lock the arms dive under the springs and if you hit a bump or flex the front end, the spring will hit the high steer arms…. So dumb. They totally could’ve machined a cutout for springs. So, word to the wise, if you’re not running coilovers, you will have to send these off to a machine shop.

They also didn’t machine the holes for the top studs big enough to fit a 19mm.. which is the size of the nut they supply. So dumb

I give them a 6/10, a C+, and a shrug of the shoulders. Up the quality of hardware, modify the machining so springs/ a 19mm socket fit, and give instructions and I’d have no complaints

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Thanks for posting, good info and I have to agree with of the points that you make.
At the same time most people go to high steer when there swapping a 80 axle into a mini truck or buggy build or three linking a 80.
The part I like about the front Range knuckles is that there keyed arguably making them stronger.
Personally I don't see big benefits of going high steer with stock control arm on a 80 but that's just me !
The arm that was cut short should be returned for a proper arm.
Black sockets usually indicate impact sockets which are usually thicker, will a stander socket fit in the hole ?
Can you post a picture showing the tie rod and drag link installed.
Lastly post 206 first picture did you install those nice clean knuckles over dirt/sand infested grease on the knuckles ball ?

 

[Squeegee]

Thanks for posting, good info and I have to agree with of the points that you make.
At the same time most people go to high steer when there swapping a 80 axle into a mini truck or buggy build or three linking a 80.
The part I like about the front Range knuckles is that there keyed arguably making them stronger.
Personally I don't see big benefits of going high steer with stock control arm on a 80 but that's just me !
The arm that was cut short should be returned for a proper arm.
Black sockets usually indicate impact sockets which are usually thicker, will a stander socket fit in the hole ?
Can you post a picture showing the tie rod and drag link installed.
Lastly post 206 first picture did you install those nice clean knuckles over dirt/sand infested grease on the knuckles ball ?

They keyed arm and bigger trunnions is nice. It’s definitely not an impact socket though, it’s a standard 19mm socket

The tie rod can’t be installed yet because the panhard needs to be moved but this is what h have so far.

……… and I wiped it down. I think it’s a little rusty from driving it to Illinois and back last month

 

[Kylackey]

I got the front range knuckles on today. And overall they’re fine. I don’t love them and I don’t hate then. There’s just a lot of weirdness with them. Stuff that, in my opinion, a set of $1100 knuckles shouldn’t have.
The casting for the knuckle is great, no issues there. The arms are…. Eeeehhhhh so so. There’s a bunch of edges that needed to be de-burred and one of my arms was cut to short. There’s a spot that didn’t get touched when they machined it for the finish pass. That’s fine I guess, it’s an esthetic issue.

The bearings supplied are NTN which I’ve never heard of, it doesn’t make them bad, I was just surprised it wasn’t a koyo or a timken. The ARPs are once again, fine. They don’t have a hex head machine machined into them so you gotta do the double nut trick to install them which is… fine I guess. But they’re ARPs which is still nice.
They don’t supply washers for the 4 top studs. Which is fine, I just used the washers from the old knuckle. But weird.
The knuckles didn’t come with any instructions. So I had to ask them for the torque specs and shim recommendations. For future reference, it’s 110 ft lbs for the top, and 75 ft lbs for the bottom. They also told me that I’d likely need 1 shim per knuckle. but didn’t say where so I put the shim on the top. Instruction should probably be supplied.

My biggest issue is that they are NOT made for 80s with springs. At full lock the arms dive under the springs and if you hit a bump or flex the front end, the spring will hit the high steer arms…. So dumb. They totally could’ve machined a cutout for springs. So, word to the wise, if you’re not running coilovers, you will have to send these off to a machine shop.

They also didn’t machine the holes for the top studs big enough to fit a 19mm.. which is the size of the nut they supply. So dumb

I give them a 6/10, a C+, and a shrug of the shoulders. Up the quality of hardware, modify the machining so springs/ a 19mm socket fit, and give instructions and I’d have no complaints

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Mild cheddar? Lol

 

[Broski]

Just looking at the pictures again and though steering arm look close I think you would need to hit a really big bump at speed for then to make contact especially with the progress springs your running and that usually doesn’t happen at full lock.

I would test them out before sending them out to be mill JMHO

Are you planning on Modifying the panhard To avoid bump steer ?

Please keep us posted as the Project moves forward

 

[Squeegee]

Mild cheddar? Lol

Reporting for duty

 

[Squeegee]

Just looking at the pictures again and though steering arm look close I think you would need to hit a really big bump at speed for then to make contact especially with the progress springs your running and that usually doesn’t happen at full lock.

I would test them out before sending them out to be mill JMHO

Are you planning on Modifying the panhard To avoid bump steer ?

Please keep us posted as the Project moves forward

I’m working on the panhard now. I’m trying to avoid heims, so the panhard has to be short. I had a friend put the stock panhard and the high steer drag link into solid works and no surprise. It had a lot of bump steer (seen below).

I sent him the measurements for the set up seen in the pics below and he said that he wasn’t sure if I’d work. From ride height to 3” of droop it’s ok, but he’s unsure of when they’re going to droop out of parallel of eachother due to the panhard being about 27” long and the drag link being around 42ish”

I’m going to have him look at it and see if he can figure something out. If he can’t think of something with his big brain, then it either needs coilovers or a double shear heim set up. I’m leaning towards heims

I talked to nick gustafson on Instagram and he was super helpful too

 

[Redgrrr]

@Squeegee why do you not want to used heims? Vibration?

I used summit machine joints on my lowers and have zero vibes… I would think the bushings in your radius arms would do the same..

 

[Squeegee]

@Squeegee why do you not want to used heims? Vibration?

I used summit machine joints on my lowers and have zero vibes… I would think the bushings in your radius arms would do the same..

I live in Montana and there’s uh… marginal weather for most of the year

 

[Redgrrr]

I live in Montana and there’s uh… marginal weather for most of the year

Ah gotcha rusty corroded heims! I’m in South Dakota with similar climate. I’ve only been thru one winter with mine done. Time will tell I guess

 

[Squeegee]

So the cars back on its own feet but still needs a bit of work.
Frankly, I don’t like the set up but it’s what I got until it’s coilover time. @arcworxs plotted the panhard and the drag link and at 5.5” of downtravel it will have a .1” discrepancy between the arcs. Which I’m told will be fine. It can always be better though. I was shown a ton of examples I learned that the panhard/ drag link being parallel to eachother is much more important than panhard length. But, the shorter the panhard, the sooner it will drop out of parallel with drag link. So if you plan on lots of travel and plan on cycling the suspension violently, you’ll probably want a longer panhard.

My main gripe is that this set up eats uptravel. I lost about 2” of uptravel, so from ride height I’m at 3.5” until the bump stops “stop” and 4” until it’s metal on metal.

Stuff to do:
1. The panhard needs a bend in it to clear the pumpkin.

2. The tie rod is too short. If you get front range knuckles, the pick ups for the tie rod are farther apart and you will not be able to use your stock tie rod. So I’m gotta make one

3. Move the tie rod to the bottom of the knuckle so it doesn’t eat the nut on the steering box

3. Clean up/ redo some welds and gussets. I spent a time of time just figuring out where everything is going to land on this dumb set up and I got tired and frustrated and never made gussets

Overall. Do everything at once. Coilovers, 3 link, and high steer. Or make compromises in your upravel, bracket strength, or panhard length

 

[baldilocks]

So the cars back on its own feet but still needs a bit of work.
Frankly, I don’t like the set up but it’s what I got until it’s coilover time. @arcworxs plotted the panhard and the drag link and at 5.5” of downtravel it will have a .1” discrepancy between the arcs. Which I’m told will be fine. It can always be better though. I was shown a ton of examples I learned that the panhard/ drag link being parallel to eachother is much more important than panhard length. But, the shorter the panhard, the sooner it will drop out of parallel with drag link. So if you plan on lots of travel and plan on cycling the suspension violently, you’ll probably want a longer panhard.

My main gripe is that this set up eats uptravel. I lost about 2” of uptravel, so from ride height I’m at 3.5” until the bump stops “stop” and 4” until it’s metal on metal.

Stuff to do:
1. The panhard needs a bend in it to clear the pumpkin.

2. The tie rod is too short. If you get front range knuckles, the pick ups for the tie rod are farther apart and you will not be able to use your stock tie rod. So I’m gotta make one

3. Move the tie rod to the bottom of the knuckle so it doesn’t eat the nut on the steering box

3. Clean up/ redo some welds and gussets. I spent a time of time just figuring out where everything is going to land on this dumb set up and I got tired and frustrated and never made gussets

Overall. Do everything at once. Coilovers, 3 link, and high steer. Or make compromises in your upravel, bracket strength, or panhard length

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Good to see you are making progress and seem to understand what you are doing. I was thinking about a set of those knuckles being that my axle is out and disassembled but you have convinced me not to do that. I think that for an 80, I’m at the point of diminishing returns already.

 

[pvhobo]

Just curious, why people think they have to keep the Pan hard bar on top of the front axle??
Axle top limits travel as Squeegee has pointed out.
Options for the pan hard are variable, on top of the axle or move it REAR ward.
I opted to put it behind the axle.
The frame side mount is behind the steering box, and crosses next to the front diff.
My pics are very dark now, will up load tomorrow.