Hidden Winch? (1 Viewer)

[yourpetdoc]

Hello all,

First timer here. I have a 2005 Land Cruiser 100 series with a 2” OME lift and slee diff drop. it’s otherwise stock and has 98,000 miles on it. I really like the look of a hidden front winch and have been considering this product.

Hidden Winch Mount 100 Series

A few questions.

Do you think it will render the airbag system ineffective?

Do you think that the increased weight of the winch will require modifications to the front suspension to compensate?

It’s only made out of 1/4 inch steel. That doesn’t seem as robust as I’d expect a winch mounting point to require. Do you think it’s tough enough to handle the stress of a winch?

Thanks for much for the forthcoming advise.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

SRS system measures overall deceleration (and a ton of other factors), there's no sensor in the bumper. Might have to crank up the t-bars a little, depending on the weight of the winch you use. You should hold some 1/4" plate before you say "only". It's plenty thick.

@reevesci

 

[yourpetdoc]

Thanks for the speedy response.

Does anyone have any experience with this hidden mount?

Also, what would be the best winch to put on it?

Thanks again.

Norm

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

SRS system measures overall deceleration (and a ton of other factors), there's no sensor in the bumper. Might have to crank up the t-bars a little, depending on the weight of the winch you use. You should hold some 1/4" plate before you say "only". It's plenty thick.

@reevesci

Correct, no sensor on a 100. The HWM 1/4" main plate also has a set of lower 1/4" runners as well. Basically making it a reinforced half I-beam instead of a flat piece of plate.

The HWM weighs 30# (plus a 80#plus synthetic line winch) yes, you'll need to crank the T-bars and I recommend an aftermarket T-bar like Tough Dog or similar, if you don't already have them.

Thanks for the speedy response.

Does anyone have any experience with this hidden mount?

Also, what would be the best winch to put on it?

Thanks again.

Norm

I design all my products for the ComeUp winches, which is the only winch I sell, just a preference of mine after 30+ years of using winches. I can make a package combo price if you wish. This HWM will hold up to a Seal Gen 2 - 12,500# Most other winches with the same dims will fit as well; Warn, Superwinch, Smitty, etc...

From your email this morning "You mentioned that the mount involves cutting the front crossmember. Does your cradle then take the place of the crossmember so as to not compromise the strength or integrity of the frame?"

That crossmember is a bolt on part (made to be replaced, not welded in place like a frame or frame support) that was probably designed for radiator protection on low impact collision, but more or less to hold the styrofoam insulator and plastic bumper cover in place. If you buy the HWM and when you go to cut out that center sector will notice that the 1/4" plate is much stronger than the crossmember. Light hits with a sledge hammer deforms this piece.

Jason

 

[Comet]

Get it, do a full pictorial install, wheel it, and review. After I recover from my brake booster assembly replacement cost, I WILL be purchasing this for Georgine (100 series). It is either this or a T17 bumper for me. Or a welder, or a lift kit, or sliders, or rear shelf system, or fridge sliders, or........dealing with Land Cruiser related issues.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

As far as install experience I've only sold 4 to date plus the prototype.

I have a PDF with steps on the install that come with the HWM.

J

 

[Comet]

Your experience and fabrication skills are incredible. As soon as I saw your post and subsequent update to your web site for the hidden winch mount I knew it was top notch. Georgine (wife's vehicle) needs to look as stock as possible and this is a great stealth install option. Next should be bumper color matched recovery points sticking through the stock bumper (seriously). The under mount frame recovery points are beefy too.

 

[yourpetdoc]

Hi All,

So here's the update on the hidden winch for my 2005 100 series. The day I wrote the original post I spent most of the day emailing back and forth with Jason from Train Tailor. In the end, I decided to buy the mount, a 9500 lb ComeUp winch and (on his suggestion) a pair of heavy duty torsion bars to handle the increased front end weight. I paid via PayPal and they were delivered about a week later.

I dropped the truck off at my local off road shop and they began by installing the torsion bars, removing the front bumper, and cutting the factory cross member in preparation for the install.

Then they tried to install the mount. It didn't fit. It turns out that there have been some changes to the front end over the years and on my model, part of the AC system interferes with the proper positioning of the mount.

I tried to call Jason at Trail Tailor. No phone number on website. I would have tried to return the hardware but the torsion bars were already installed and the crossmember had been cut. I tried to email him and he never returned my email.

My mechanic was able to get him to return an email and it turns out that the seller had only tested the mount on a 1999 model and a 2003 model. No mention of this on the website or in our email conversation.

Finally, we decided that the mount had to be trimmed. I don't think it lost very much strength but what I'd thought would be a few hours of shop time turned into a full day to the tune of an extra $600.00.
So, the Pros:
It looks great and functions perfectly. Exactly what i was hoping for.
Very good build quality

The Cons:
It was much more expensive and difficult to install than I'd been led to believe.
Its install requred the removal of the factory hook and loops up front. Now there's nowhere to attach tow straps or to re-attach the shackle of I ever need to use a pulley. I'm looking for replacements that will fit around or over the install.

Feel free to ask any quesitons. Here's some photos.

Norm

 

[Comet]

Very nice look. Exactly what I am after when I get to that point. Sorry about your experience with fitment/modification. Jason is a top notch vendor with outstanding products. Trail Taylor also has recovery points that replace the OEM. Nice and beefy with rounded edges to utilize soft recovery straps.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

@yourpetdoc I'll respond to this in full in a couple of weeks. I have a 2005 coming in for a complete build and will test fit when I get it in the shop. From my quick rough measurements I don't see why it needed to be trimmed. I asked a few questions and never got a reply from your shop. One being if the AC condenser was OEM or had it been replaced with an aftermarket. Nor did I ever get a follow up from them after the initial discussion either. Nor did you ever contact after the initial discussion either.

Once I get this 2005 in the shop and get it fit if there is indeed a trimming issue I'll gladly reimburse for correspondence time and my labor time to correct the issue. From what your installer said, it should have been a 2 minute trim to make fit at best.

Also, on ALL Trail Tailor invoices there is full contact information including a phone number. I just verified this on yours.

I'll follow up as soon as I can investigate further.

Jason

 

[yourpetdoc]

Hi Jason,

Thanks very much. I actually never thought to look on the invoice. That would have been a good idea. I'll resend a copy of the email I sent you after we discovered the problem (no aftermarket parts on this truck) just to verify that I reached out and I greatly appreciate your offer of partial reimbursement.

I'd like to reiterate for anyone else monitoring this thread that, though there were a few bumps in the road, the craftsmanship of this piece is outstanding and the fit and finish of the final project is flawless. Once Jason makes the adjustments to account for the differences in model year I'll have no reservations about recommending it to anyone. Overall I'm very pleased with the outcome.

Norm

 

[socalmtbiker]

Hi All,

So here's the update on the hidden winch for my 2005 100 series. The day I wrote the original post I spent most of the day emailing back and forth with Jason from Train Tailor. In the end, I decided to buy the mount, a 9500 lb ComeUp winch and (on his suggestion) a pair of heavy duty torsion bars to handle the increased front end weight. I paid via PayPal and they were delivered about a week later.

I dropped the truck off at my local off road shop and they began by installing the torsion bars, removing the front bumper, and cutting the factory cross member in preparation for the install.

Then they tried to install the mount. It didn't fit. It turns out that there have been some changes to the front end over the years and on my model, part of the AC system interferes with the proper positioning of the mount.

I tried to call Jason at Trail Tailor. No phone number on website. I would have tried to return the hardware but the torsion bars were already installed and the crossmember had been cut. I tried to email him and he never returned my email.

My mechanic was able to get him to return an email and it turns out that the seller had only tested the mount on a 1999 model and a 2003 model. No mention of this on the website or in our email conversation.

Finally, we decided that the mount had to be trimmed. I don't think it lost very much strength but what I'd thought would be a few hours of shop time turned into a full day to the tune of an extra $600.00.
So, the Pros:
It looks great and functions perfectly. Exactly what i was hoping for.
Very good build quality

The Cons:
It was much more expensive and difficult to install than I'd been led to believe.
Its install requred the removal of the factory hook and loops up front. Now there's nowhere to attach tow straps or to re-attach the shackle of I ever need to use a pulley. I'm looking for replacements that will fit around or over the install.

Feel free to ask any quesitons. Here's some photos.

Norm

View attachment 1790760 View attachment 1790761

I bought a hidden hitch plate as well when they were first announced but haven’t installed yet. I have a 2005 lx and did not realize the plate was made for certain yrs. Do you by chance have any photos of where the trim needs to be made? Also, can you share photos of where the controller is mounted?
@TRAIL TAILOR have any update on the fitment?

Thanks

 

[sleepycruiser]

If nothing else, it looks awesome!!

 

[bicycleagent003]

Kudos to Jason for making great products, and doing his best with communication to make this right. We are a small community, and I like to see people talking things through like this rather than going ballistic and ALL CAPS needlessly.
I'll be giving you a call, Jason, when I'm ready to get some products going for my soon to be purchased 100 Series.

 

[John Young]

I wish I had known about this...I had my guys in Dubai modify a Model 80 Asin / Toyota OEM winch and bracket for my 1998. Not entirely sure how sound it is, but I totally agree that the hidden look is classier and more fitting to the design of the Model 100. Here are a couple of photos of what I ended up with:

The opening is a little crude. I probably ought to put some trim on it.

 

[gatormark91]

I bought Jason's prototype 100 bumper from him when he sold Esme (his 98?). When I mounted it, I found that one of the

Hi All,

So here's the update on the hidden winch for my 2005 100 series. The day I wrote the original post I spent most of the day emailing back and forth with Jason from Train Tailor. In the end, I decided to buy the mount, a 9500 lb ComeUp winch and (on his suggestion) a pair of heavy duty torsion bars to handle the increased front end weight. I paid via PayPal and they were delivered about a week later.

I dropped the truck off at my local off road shop and they began by installing the torsion bars, removing the front bumper, and cutting the factory cross member in preparation for the install.

Then they tried to install the mount. It didn't fit. It turns out that there have been some changes to the front end over the years and on my model, part of the AC system interferes with the proper positioning of the mount.

I tried to call Jason at Trail Tailor. No phone number on website. I would have tried to return the hardware but the torsion bars were already installed and the crossmember had been cut. I tried to email him and he never returned my email.

My mechanic was able to get him to return an email and it turns out that the seller had only tested the mount on a 1999 model and a 2003 model. No mention of this on the website or in our email conversation.

Finally, we decided that the mount had to be trimmed. I don't think it lost very much strength but what I'd thought would be a few hours of shop time turned into a full day to the tune of an extra $600.00.
So, the Pros:
It looks great and functions perfectly. Exactly what i was hoping for.
Very good build quality

The Cons:
It was much more expensive and difficult to install than I'd been led to believe.
Its install requred the removal of the factory hook and loops up front. Now there's nowhere to attach tow straps or to re-attach the shackle of I ever need to use a pulley. I'm looking for replacements that will fit around or over the install.

Feel free to ask any quesitons. Here's some photos.

Norm

View attachment 1790760 View attachment 1790761

I bought Jason's prototype 100 bumper from him when he sold Esme (his 98?). When I mounted it, I found that one of the frame mounting points didn't exactly fit around the AC bits behind the bumper (hey, it was a prototype, no complaints). It literally took me 30 minutes with my angle grinder to fix it (grind a little off, hang the bumper, take it off again, grind some more off), so I am curious where the $600 extra of shop labor came from that your mechanic charged?

 

[whitenoise]

Airbag sensors are extremely sensitive to any changes in the structure of the vehicle immediately in front of them. The decel sensors on the 100 series are on the radiator supports, which means changes to anything forward of them will affect their operation. Since a winch mount, or a front bumper will probably stiffen the front structure, you can bet that the airbag system will deploy quicker than it is supposed to. Is this a problem - thats anybody's guess without validating the change with either simulation or crash tests.

In short, if you're worried about that, don't install any aftermarket parts. Luckily this is a free country where no one questions what you've bolted to your truck (unlike Australia, for example).

 

[4Beast]

Airbag sensors are extremely sensitive to any changes in the structure of the vehicle immediately in front of them. The decel sensors on the 100 series are on the radiator supports, which means changes to anything forward of them will affect their operation. Since a winch mount, or a front bumper will probably stiffen the front structure, you can bet that the airbag system will deploy quicker than it is supposed to. Is this a problem - thats anybody's guess without validating the change with either simulation or crash tests.

In short, if you're worried about that, don't install any aftermarket parts. Luckily this is a free country where no one questions what you've bolted to your truck (unlike Australia, for example).

This sounds a bit like speculation stated as fact, do you have more info on this?

The Hidden Hitch looks great, btw.

 

[Empty room]

Airbag sensors are extremely sensitive to any changes in the structure of the vehicle immediately in front of them. The decel sensors on the 100 series are on the radiator supports, which means changes to anything forward of them will affect their operation. Since a winch mount, or a front bumper will probably stiffen the front structure, you can bet that the airbag system will deploy quicker than it is supposed to. Is this a problem - thats anybody's guess without validating the change with either simulation or crash tests.

In short, if you're worried about that, don't install any aftermarket parts. Luckily this is a free country where no one questions what you've bolted to your truck (unlike Australia, for example).

Valid point... no shade just an opposing concern.

 

[whitenoise]

This sounds a bit like speculation stated as fact, do you have more info on this?

No, I cant provide more info on this without violating NDAs and employment contracts. So sorry, you can either take my opinion at face value, or ignore it.

EDIT: Watch the latest expedition overland video with Dave Harriton on the AEV Bison, that will give you an insight into what I'm talking about.