Help Please with resetting stuck sunroof

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There is something to Hydrogen supplementation. It's just very difficult to tune with consistency. I am impressed to see it when folks are able to make it work without destroying their vehicles.

If I had the time and money I might try it on a little beater sometime. That way if I screw it up I could ship it off to the salvage yard without a 2nd thought. I might rather invest my efforts into an LPG conversion though.

Nevertheless, I am interested in how it works for you.
Since there are interested members including yourself, I will try to do some highly controlled testing for future posts. There is nobody more skeptical than myself, and I researched this thoroughly before I ever attempted it.

I recently sold the FJ40 I worked 6 years to restore to showroom condition, and this is the ONLY vehicle I have, I cannot afford to blow it up, so yes, I put in the time and the critical thinking to arrive at a correct result.

At first, just for experimental purposes, I built several of those crap mason jar HHO generators, but ultimately decided that they were unsafe.

THEN, there was the problem of ECU compensation. Let me elaborate. If you install an HHO generator, it will, generally speaking, ( depending on it's size, number of plates, density of the solution, etc ), deliver around 6 litres of Hydrogen gas per minute. Hydrogen is one of the most powerful and combustible fuels known to man, and because of that, it increases the efficiency and power of the engine dramatically, it also cleans the engine as time goes by to make it almost like new.

The problem arises when the ECU senses mileage figures that are greater than what was programmed into it by the factory, IE, it thinks the engine is running to lean, so it compensates by enriching the fuel air mixture. Most people are not aware of this, and when they try it, they get good mileage for awhile, then it goes right back to where it was once the ECU compensates. There are crude MAF sensor devices you can plug into the system and screw around with a couple of little knobs forever to try to overcome that, but THAT is a very inelegant solution. The right way to do it is to install a chip that overrides the ECU. There are chip makers out there that specialize in this burgeoning market, you can buy a chip from them for any vehicle made. THIS is the right way to go. The chip will cost from $80.00 to 100.00, and will "fool" the ECU so that it does not compensate your newly found gas savings right back to zero.

I also took the time to source out a company that builds professional quality HHO generators. I was very pleased with the quality, but the instructions were lacking in two vital areas.

1) Adjusting the electrolyte
You have to adjust the density of the solution to the point that you are getting good hydrogen production, but not drawing so many amps that you burn up the circuit. This is done by trial and error. You start with a known circuit capability, ( 30 amps is about right ). Then you start with a very weak solution of DISTILLED water ( important for longevity and cleanliness of the generator ) and KOH ( Potassium Hydroxide, which is your electrolyte ) NOT BAKING SODA!!! Baking soda will make a corrupted mess of the generator, as will tap water. KOH can be bought at places that supply the soap making industry. I bought 8 lbs of it here in Portland for $13.00.

Add KOH to the solution until you get good hydrogen production. You can test this by running a hose from the HHO generator to a jug filled with distilled water ( must use distilled for testing to avoid contamination ). Once you start seeing it bubbling out of the hose at a pretty good rate, like it's boiling, you test how many amps the circuit is drawing. 25-27 is about right, as the amperage draw will increase as it heats up.

2) Wiring the circuit safely IMPORTANT!!!!!
See my wiring diagram. Hydrogen is dangerous and highly explosive. You MUST wire this into the ignition circuit so that the generator is ONLY on when the ENGINE IS RUNNING.

There were a couple of questions regarding the amperage of the circuit. I bought a 40 amp relay because I could not find a 30 amp. I used a 75 amp switch because I could not find a 30 amp. The fuses are 30 amps, so if I overdraw the circuit, the fuses will take care of everything.
 
I won't get into the debate of whether or not it works :meh:

You obviously believe in it and the last thing I want to do is run off a new member without seeing all of your test data....

But please riddle me this....

In your basic relay diagram, you use a 75amp Marine grade switch to trigger a 40amp relay :hhmm:

HHOHoaxWiringDiagramLOL.jpg


I'm sure that works just dandy as a simple relay circuit, but why bother using the relay at all with such a high amperage switch :confused:

Also, please give us some details on the measures you took with the ECU :hhmm:
Well, I'm not using the switch to trigger the relay specifically, it stays on all the time. The reason it is there at all is because the HHO generator comes on when the ignition switch is in the far right start or run position. Sometimes, you want to use things like the sunroof or power windows, say when you're parked and just sitting in the car. You have to have the switch in the run position for those items, but the engine is not running. I wanted to have a way to turn the HHO generator OFF when the switch needed to be in the RUN position, IE a manual override in those rare cases when it's needed, or for example, when you take the vehicle to a mechanic and don't want him to blow himself up.

I bought a 40 amp relay because I could not find a 30 amp. I used a 75 amp switch because I could not find a 30 amp. The fuses are 30 amps, so if I overdraw the circuit, the fuses will take care of everything.

Volo Performance makes chips for about every known vehicle. They are very well informed on HHO units, and their chips work to give not only to improve performance but to dynamically configure the ECU to compensate for the HHO unit increasing the mileage. Their kits are simple to install and come with everthing you need to tap right into the MAF wiring harness.
 
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Yeah, but now he's getting flamed for something he didn't even start so why would he want to even start another thread? I'm sure we have all heard the negatives and why HHC isn't a good idea. But, it is something that also has some merit or else no one would even try it. Here is a guy who is doing it on his Land Cruiser and apparently it is working for him (to what degree is a good question that I would like to hear about).

I think it's interesting even if its something I would not be comfortable doing. He's not trying to sell anything. Maybe he would start a thread and maybe folks wouldn't troll him to death. He just might have answers to some good questions. If he gets ran off then obviously it will be a dead subject.

Sigung,
First of all, how is your sunroof going? Working yet? If so, what fixed it?

Second, "in response to the questions" you got in this thread why not start another thread if you have the time to share your experience and results regarding your HHC? Maybe you could get around to visiting a dyno and I would love to see what you come up with. You might get a little disrespect or skepticism from a few members, but some of us are curious. If the trolls get unbearable you can ask the mods to kill the thread. Either way, the forum is a great source of info for Land Cruiser owners and you would likely find value in hanging around.

Well, I have not had time to work on the sunroof this week, it's raining all week long, and I don't want to remove the temporary seal I've jury-rigged together until it stops raining. I think I'm going to try to use the allen wrench crank method to see if I can get it open at all, then if I can, I'm going to lube the hell out of the rails and hope that does it. I'll post results...I don't think disconnecting the battery is going to help me 'cause I've been doing a lot of that with the HHO installation.

Since other members backed off a little, I've shared everything I currently know in another response I made to you, If anyone has any questions or needs help with an HHO project, I will be glad to do whatever I can.

I have a new chip coming this week that MAY boost the mileage up to a 50% increase, we'll see.....
 
I for one find the post interesting. I wouldn't know where to begin installing something like that. Honestly Snake Eater why even slam the guy with questions? I enjoyed the read and obviously he was not selling anything...
 
I for one find the post interesting. I wouldn't know where to begin installing something like that. Honestly Snake Eater why even slam the guy with questions? I enjoyed the read and obviously he was not selling anything...

I asked two simple questions about his system, how am I "slamming" him with questions :confused:

I'm just as interested as anyone else and would love to see actual test data, but forgive me if I remain skeptical :meh:
 
I for one find the post interesting. I wouldn't know where to begin installing something like that. Honestly Snake Eater why even slam the guy with questions? I enjoyed the read and obviously he was not selling anything...

I bought my HHO unit from this guy

GMAX350.Net - Go Green With GMAX!

He's kind of quirky, and he's a real pitch man, but he makes a super high quality product, and he'll get on the phone with you and help you get it right. As I mentioned, his instructions are somewhat lacking, but he did help me get it configured correctly.

I would upload a picture of the kit, it was about $300.00, but this forum has an extreme limit to attachments, so my previous PDF file ate up my quota.
 
I asked two simple questions about his system, how am I "slamming" him with questions :confused:

I'm just as interested as anyone else and would love to see actual test data, but forgive me if I remain skeptical :meh:

You should be skeptical, it's what leads to the truth. If I had not been so skeptical, I would have wound up with a ruined engine, and nothing to show for it.

It is going to take some time for me to figure out a way to provide data that will be acceptable, in point of fact, I'm not exactly sure at this point how I could ever unequivocally prove my results. I did experience a 25% improvement for in-town gas mileage over a two week period. I was careful with my records and measurements of mileage driven and the amount of fuel needed to replace what was used, but could I prove absolutely the results, probably, but it's going to take some real effort on my part. This was my measurement method for the past two weeks. The first thing you need to know is that in the state of Oregon, it is illegal to pump your own gas, and it's illegal to top off the tank, so when you to to fill the tank up, and the gas pump automatically shuts off, the attendant is required by law to remove the pump without pumping any more gas. My reasoning was that if I filled the tank up, ran it until it was almost empty, and then went back to the same gas station to fill up again, that it was very likely that the pump would shut off at exactly the same fuel level as the previous fill up. So when I filled up again after the first two weeks I compared my mileage with previously recorded mileage ( subject to the same controls ) and the mileage had increase by .2554, a little over 25%. I think that the only way I can get more accurate than that would be for me to top off my tank with my own gas can, and then top it off again after 50 miles. Even at that, I'm not sure the results would be proof enough for some people...
 
Come on Snake I was just stirring the pot with you. You have to admit between the YouTube videos and smiley faces you were not exactly open minded to the post. That was very obvious. Me and Doc Brown have been working on installing a Mr Fusion in my 96, and I take it you will not be a fan of that either....

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD
 
I bought my HHO unit from this guy

GMAX350.Net - Go Green With GMAX!

He's kind of quirky, and he's a real pitch man, but he makes a super high quality product, and he'll get on the phone with you and help you get it right. As I mentioned, his instructions are somewhat lacking, but he did help me get it configured correctly.

I would upload a picture of the kit, it was about $300.00, but this forum has an extreme limit to attachments, so my previous PDF file ate up my quota.
You can upload pictures to photobucket and then link them into your post without effecting your image allowance.

Your mileage results sound interesting. I would love to see results on a dyno with the generator on and also with it off. I think it would be fun to get an older Honda civic or something similar to use as a test bed for CNG and maybe even HHO. That way if it dies it isn't such a big deal and if it works you can get some really good mileage or pay about half of what you would pay for gas.
 
my sunroof would barely open, wasent used for atleast 2 years, it would chatter ever time it moved, i lubed the crap out of the rails. i used LPS #1 very thin greaseless film, it worked so good, my sunroof opens and closes really fast now. if yours is stuck use your hand or something to guide it open or closed.
 
You can upload pictures to photobucket and then link them into your post without effecting your image allowance.

Your mileage results sound interesting. I would love to see results on a dyno with the generator on and also with it off. I think it would be fun to get an older Honda civic or something similar to use as a test bed for CNG and maybe even HHO. That way if it dies it isn't such a big deal and if it works you can get some really good mileage or pay about half of what you would pay for gas.

Here's the thing I never got a chance to do. Put one of these on a pre-ecu car. I think the results would be impressive. This works on diesel as well. Because I see the potential to help some people who are willing to listen, I will look into the dyno thing. It's hard to express seat of the pants results with any credibility, so, when I say something like "It feels like a different vehicle" well, you get my point, not many people are going to be able to relate, but I just have to say, I was completely blown away by the difference in the available power, and when the mileage results became evident, I was happy. Gas is getting SO expensive. One of the members here has a signature something like "when I stomp on it my truck tells me to go f myself and drinks all my gas". Well, that was me before the install. Not anymore. It will take me some time to pull the testing together. First I will have to disconnect the HHO Generator remove the chip, and allow the ECU to re-learn the original habits of the truck. Then I will have to do the dyno and mileage tests, and then re-hook up the generator and chip, and give it another week or so to re-train the ECU. then do dyno and mileage tests again, I'm willing to do this, but, please be advised, it's going to take some time. Now that I think of it, maybe I'll do the test in reverse, just test it now, get the results, then revert it back and test it again, that will be faster. Anyway, for the sake of progress and just to stick it to big oil, I'll do the test for this forum. Who knows what a positive impact on the environment this will have, considering the number of members here.
 
I gave up on this thread when it went so far into the weeds, but just curious did you ever figure out the problem with the sunroof?

Mine became stuck this weekend and I figured out that the glass was pressing against the rear of the opening so tight it would not move. I pulled off the trim pieces, loosened the bolts and adjusted the glass forward slightly. All is well now. I just put a new gutter mount roof rack on, so maybe that tweaked the opening just enough to make it too tight.
 
Can you elaborate on your fix a little bit? I am facing the same problem and seem to have the same diagnosis as you. Mine will start to open and get jammed on the passenger side. Also how did you get the trim pieces off?
 
Can you elaborate on your fix a little bit? I am facing the same problem and seem to have the same diagnosis as you. Mine will start to open and get jammed on the passenger side. Also how did you get the trim pieces off?

Here's what I did.

  1. Tilt the roof up if you can, which will make it much easier to remove the trim.
  2. Gently pull the plastic trim pieces off from the underside of the sunroof by pulling on the ends, one end at a time. You only need to remove the trim on the sides. The trims pieces are old and little brittle , so be careful.
  3. You'll now see 3 nuts on each side that hold the glass to the mechanism. Loosen the 6 nuts and then lower (un-tilt) the glass. This should position the glass where it is no longer binding. Tighten the bolts.
  4. Replace the trim (may need to tilt it back up to make it easier).

I agree with Jamisobe about lubing the mechanism/rails.
 
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Here's a picture

I gave up on this thread when it went so far into the weeds, but just curious did you ever figure out the problem with the sunroof?

Mine became stuck this weekend and I figured out that the glass was pressing against the rear of the opening so tight it would not move. I pulled off the trim pieces, loosened the bolts and adjusted the glass forward slightly. All is well now. I just put a new gutter mount roof rack on, so maybe that tweaked the opening just enough to make it too tight.

No, I finally got a chance to work on it this weekend, pulled the switch cover off, and started looking for that allen screw everybody has been talking about that you can manually open the sunroof with. It is nowhere to be found. The flat head screw that you see in this picture that is all buggered up tries to turn when I hit the switch, so I tried turning it manually, but I was not able to get it to turn except a little before it bound up and the screwdriver started slipping

1997_FZJ80_Sunroof_Motor.jpg


Either I don't have an allen screw to turn the motor, or I'm looking in the wrong place. Any ideas guys?
 
Here's what I did.

  1. Tilt the roof up if you can, which will make it much easier to remove the trim.
  2. Gently pull the plastic trim pieces off from the underside of the sunroof by pulling on the ends, one end at a time. You only need to remove the trim on the sides. The trims pieces are old and little brittle , so be careful.
  3. You'll now see 3 nuts on each side that hold the glass to the mechanism. Loosen the 6 nuts and then lower (un-tilt) the glass. This should position the glass where it is no longer binding. Tighten the bolts.
  4. Replace the trim (may need to tilt it back up to make it easier).

I agree with Jamisobe about lubing the mechanism/rails.

I thought I would try this until I saw the part about tilting the sunroof up. Mine will not tilt up...
 
Here's the thing I never got a chance to do. Put one of these on a pre-ecu car. I think the results would be impressive. This works on diesel as well. Because I see the potential to help some people who are willing to listen, I will look into the dyno thing. It's hard to express seat of the pants results with any credibility, so, when I say something like "It feels like a different vehicle" well, you get my point, not many people are going to be able to relate, but I just have to say, I was completely blown away by the difference in the available power, and when the mileage results became evident, I was happy. Gas is getting SO expensive. One of the members here has a signature something like "when I stomp on it my truck tells me to go f myself and drinks all my gas". Well, that was me before the install. Not anymore. It will take me some time to pull the testing together. First I will have to disconnect the HHO Generator remove the chip, and allow the ECU to re-learn the original habits of the truck. Then I will have to do the dyno and mileage tests, and then re-hook up the generator and chip, and give it another week or so to re-train the ECU. then do dyno and mileage tests again, I'm willing to do this, but, please be advised, it's going to take some time. Now that I think of it, maybe I'll do the test in reverse, just test it now, get the results, then revert it back and test it again, that will be faster. Anyway, for the sake of progress and just to stick it to big oil, I'll do the test for this forum. Who knows what a positive impact on the environment this will have, considering the number of members here.

I saw an advert on Ebay UK for a Hydrogen Generator but got cold feet after doing some searches on the net and people saying these are scams.

I am looking forwards to your dyno results & being re-educated... if this works it would be awesome.... (especially like the part about 'stick it to big oil'):clap:
 
Did you take the base plate of the switches off, I think it is under that. I remember seeing it when I had the headliner down and sunroof out, but can't recall where it is exactly.

Also very curious on the hydrogen, a guy I know was trying to make a larger generator with some rather fancy circuitry to be the only fuel source for a small car, not sure that it ever came through or not.

Is there any way to tell how lean/rich the engine is actually running with the H2 going in so ensure things are running OK?

No, I finally got a chance to work on it this weekend, pulled the switch cover off, and started looking for that allen screw everybody has been talking about that you can manually open the sunroof with. It is nowhere to be found. The flat head screw that you see in this picture that is all buggered up tries to turn when I hit the switch, so I tried turning it manually, but I was not able to get it to turn except a little before it bound up and the screwdriver started slipping



Either I don't have an allen screw to turn the motor, or I'm looking in the wrong place. Any ideas guys?
 
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