HDJ81 - Start Issues (1 Viewer)

[Classic85]

Is anyone aware of an overheating re-start prevention on the 4.2L 1-HDT?

This is what is happening semi regularly; Started in the spring, never happened over the winter. I take a longer drive say 30-50 minutes usually highway sometimes not. Pushing her hard but nothing she can't deal with. I get to my location, shut her down, do my business 5-10 minutes maximum. I get back in, go to start, nothing, crickets... However all electrical comes on like normal.

I sit maybe 5 minutes, usually get out and look under the hood (imitating Jeep owners) maybe twist battery connections, poke at starter, adjust shift lever on console (Maybe a sensor) but almost always its a few (3) to 5 minutes or longer then BAM starts right up like nothing ever happened. Almost like she has cooled down enough.

Symptoms on the surface appear electrical however I have checked all cabling to batteries, starter and alternator, all is good. Is it possible the turbo is too hot, preventing from starting? no turbo timer on her yet. Or is there an overheat sensor of some sort.

Open to suggestion opinions and what have you.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

This happened on my Lj78 (and had it with other Toyotas) and it's always been the starter solenoid contacts. Cheap parts, but you have to pull your starter to replace them. Very likely this is the problem you are having. The issue started for me only when the engine was hot, but it will happen progressively more and more (if thats what the problem is). Left me stranded in awkward situations a couple times.

 

[IanB]

I get back in, go to start, nothing, crickets... However all electrical comes on like normal.

By this you mean you turn the key and nothing happens, or? If so, I agree with GTSSportCoupe's diagnosis, cheap parts, but a bit of labor to replace.

 

[Classic85]

By this you mean you turn the key and nothing happens, or? If so, I agree with GTSSportCoupe's diagnosis, cheap parts, but a bit of labor to replace.

Thing is its a brand new starter installed November 2015. Suppose I could take original starter back and get it re-built...and re-install (starter is a bitch to work on under there)
IanB Turn the key, "all" electrical boots as normal, all warning lights, radio etc. solenoid clicks over but will not start.

 

[tweeek]

There is no sensor anywhere that will prevent you from starting other than neutral start switch. Starter contacts, starter relay, 12/24 switching relay and ignition are really the only components in the starting system.

 

[IanB]

Thing is its a brand new starter installed November 2015. Suppose I could take original starter back and get it re-built...and re-install (starter is a bitch to work on under there)
IanB Turn the key, "all" electrical boots as normal, all warning lights, radio etc. solenoid clicks over but will not start.

My only other suggestion would be to check your grounds. The fact the starter is recently replaced makes it unlikely the contacts are worn out.

 

[Classic85]

My only other suggestion would be to check your grounds. The fact the starter is recently replaced makes it unlikely the contacts are worn out.

tweeek Thanks tweeek, that confirms my thoughts. I will follow page AT-13 #5 "Inspect Neutral Start Switch" Reason I say this is the trans was looked at about 4 months back for general inspection and this aside from the starter itself is the only thing touched prior to this issue occurring.
IanB I have gone all through wiring and the only "loose" spot is ground to primary battery post. This connection will be replaced this weekend

 

[roscoFJ73]

Thing is its a brand new starter installed November 2015.

It should have a few months warranty left , why not take it back and let them deal with it?

 

[Classic85]

This happened on my Lj78 (and had it with other Toyotas) and it's always been the starter solenoid contacts. Cheap parts, but you have to pull your starter to replace them. Very likely this is the problem you are having. The issue started for me only when the engine was hot, but it will happen progressively more and more (if thats what the problem is). Left me stranded in awkward situations a couple times.

Like I said this is less than 1 year. IanB, GTSSportCoupe Does it appear that this could be the culprit or is this simply wear and tear? I will call them tomorrow to discuss but looking for your thoughts.

 

[Classic85]

It should have a few months warranty left , why not take it back and let them deal with it?

Darn straight, I am a huge fan of warranties.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Have you load tested the starting circuit? If contacts don't get a full dose of electricity ,it will damage them. I had an auto electrician do this for me. He got underneath and checked the voltage at the starter while I turned the key to start.
I see yours is an 1990 model. It might be worth checking the earth strap at the engine block for corrosion etc.

 

[Classic85]

Have you load tested the starting circuit? If contacts don't get a full dose of electricity ,it will damage them. I had an auto electrician do this for me. He got underneath and checked the voltage at the starter while I turned the key to start.
I see yours is an 1990 model. It might be worth checking the earth strap at the engine block for corrosion etc.

Do these contacts look damaged? Regarding load test, I am getting 25.58V at the starter. Batteries are new Optima Yellows June 2015, both read 12.76V. I will check earth strap today and replace as necessary.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Do these contacts look damaged? .

I would have thought so judging by the pitted surface on a relatively new starter, but its a long time since I've looked at a set. Is that 25.8v when its cranking?

 

[Classic85]

I would have thought so judging by the pitted surface on a relatively new starter, but its a long time since I've looked at a set. Is that 25.8v when its cranking?

Update, took starter to supplier of this starter, rebuilds starters, alternators etc. Perfectly normal wear and tear, looks absolutely normal, plunger is good even wear, and the excess wear one side vs the other is normal. Starter working as required. I will check block and frame ground and all supply lines in start system. Yes 25.8v on crank.

 

[IanB]

I haven't had a starter apart to look, so I'm not able to offer much feedback on your pics. Sounds like you found an expert who's given it the green light. I'd agree you should be shifting your focus back to loose connections/grounds.

 

[Classic85]

I haven't had a starter apart to look, so I'm not able to offer much feedback on your pics. Sounds like you found an expert who's given it the green light. I'd agree you should be shifting your focus back to loose connections/grounds.

And the chase begins.

 

[Classic85]

End day update. Checked block ground, cleaned it up, really didn't need to but heh, while I'm in there...
Installed starter, that top nut is getting easier (or I'm getting smarter), connected all wiring.

Ignition cable to pin 50 appeared loose at its connection, double checked the in-line water proof connector and the female spade side (wiring harness) is not seating properly, its been pulled back. Problem here is that with the starter installed its almost impossible to punch down a new connection with the remaining 6cm pigtail of a wire, just not enough room in there.

So, I made a semi permanent spade connection and shrink wrapped the join.
When it was not connected the same results where there as to when this whole thing started. start car, no start (obviously)

I am thinking this may have been the issue, only way to know is try and see where it goes from here.
Also double checked a few more cables most seemed fine, cleaned a couple.

Thanks for piping in crew, if things change I will provide an update.

 

[Classic85]

End day update. Checked block ground, cleaned it up, really didn't need to but heh, while I'm in there...
Installed starter, that top nut is getting easier (or I'm getting smarter), connected all wiring.

Ignition cable to pin 50 appeared loose at its connection, double checked the in-line water proof connector and the female spade side (wiring harness) is not seating properly, its been pulled back. Problem here is that with the starter installed its almost impossible to punch down a new connection with the remaining 6cm pigtail of a wire, just not enough room in there.

So, I made a semi permanent spade connection and shrink wrapped the join.
When it was not connected the same results where there as to when this whole thing started. start car, no start (obviously)

I am thinking this may have been the issue, only way to know is try and see where it goes from here.
Also double checked a few more cables most seemed fine, cleaned a couple.

Thanks for piping in crew, if things change I will provide an update.

One week, no non-start issues. Seems almost anti climactic but it is appearing as if it was that one line.