I am putting the front Drive Shaft Back in. Got new hardware. The studs for the front output shaft to connect the front drive shaft appear to be too short. As you see in the picture it nut is only grabbing about 1/2 of the its threads with the washer on. I have torqued to spec, but that just not seem to be enough threads. The drive shaft is not stock but a Tom Woods double carden. Should I just do away with the washers to get more thread grip?
Front Drive Shaft / Transfer Case Output Shaft Question
- Thread starter Toyota newbie
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I would keep using the washers…and get new longer D/S bolts from a Toyota dealer.
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That tom woods yoke is a LOT thicker than stock - hence your problem...
Longer studs required.
cheers,
george.
Longer studs required.
cheers,
george.
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- #5
Dang! george, you rebuilt my transfer case a few years back and I just got the rebuilt transmission and transfer case back in last fall and getting everything buttoned up for getting it back on the road this spring. Thanks all for the help!
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^ wrong george 
- Thread starter
- #7
It does not look like they sell longer studs from my search and TCW local Toyota parts guy. It is really cramped in there to even be able to replace them. Thus, probably best to just remove washers to get more thread grip call it good. Anyone have experience otherwise?
Some prior discussions on replacing the transfer case output flange studs:
Long thread but some good information:
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Run it by Tom Woods??
Long thread but some good information:
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Run it by Tom Woods??
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The washers are there to provide support for the nuts against the forged surface. Even if you removed them, you wouldn't have enough thread engagement. You need longer studs; this should have been addressed when it was rebuilt, when the flange was off – if it was known at the time that you did not intend to install an OEM driveshaft.
It doesn't matter how much room there is in there now, the studs were installed before the flange. You'll have to remove everything and rebuild the flange properly...or you can install an OEM driveshaft.
installing Tom Woods drive shafts have always been a problem for this reason, Wake people!
I know that others will have a different opinion.
I run the same DC tom woods drive shaft and have the same issue. I run it without the washers and it has not been a problem. Is it ideal no has it worked yes.
As you can see the shoulder on the nut is the same size as the washer so IMO your getting the same clamping force. It's a thick washer and with it removed all threads on the nut are utilized.
The other option is to buy a @landtank DC shaft that has Toyota parts.
I run the same DC tom woods drive shaft and have the same issue. I run it without the washers and it has not been a problem. Is it ideal no has it worked yes.
As you can see the shoulder on the nut is the same size as the washer so IMO your getting the same clamping force. It's a thick washer and with it removed all threads on the nut are utilized.
The other option is to buy a @landtank DC shaft that has Toyota parts.
FWIW I have a TW DC front driveshaft on my 97 LX450. The transfer case output flange studs are not an issue for me.
Personally, I wouldn't purchase a TW shaft again simply because maintenance is a royal PITA, but it fits fine.
Personally, I wouldn't purchase a TW shaft again simply because maintenance is a royal PITA, but it fits fine.
Given the fact that conventional wisdom says you only get, at best, 1–1/2 threads of engagement on a nut, and they aren't full thread length like tapped holes are, is it really worth the trouble and risk? I mean, just look at how few threads are covered, not to mention engaged, in the OP's photo, and imagine how fast that flange spins. Those are 'Vegas odds, IMHO.
Apparently I don’t have common wisdom
Please explain this nut to thread thing.
Engineering practice is to assume that only 1–1/2 to 2 threads are engaged between male and female threaded fasteners at any point in the engagement, due to the fact that the threads are not perfectly formed when they are cut/rolled and the distance between any two thread peaks/valleys is slightly different from any other, adjacent, two.
This is why drilled and tapped hole depths are specified, in practice, as 1–1/2 to 2 times the thread diameter, to ensure that there is sufficient chance for adequate thread engagement and why nuts are much, much thinner than they would normally be, if their thickness was governed by the same practical standard. The nut heights are (about) 90% of the thread diameter, accounting for lead chamfers, because they can be located on the male fastener anywhere, and therefore the 3-5 threads in them will get 1–1/2 to 2 threads engaged, somewhere. The washers are used with them, or forged onto them, in order to provide a reaction surface to use to stretch the male threads once engagement occurs – this is what happens when you turn to torque.
This is also why threads are ground, if the thread engagement is critical. Ground threads are consistently spaced and therefore most consistently engaged along the length of engagement.
This is why drilled and tapped hole depths are specified, in practice, as 1–1/2 to 2 times the thread diameter, to ensure that there is sufficient chance for adequate thread engagement and why nuts are much, much thinner than they would normally be, if their thickness was governed by the same practical standard. The nut heights are (about) 90% of the thread diameter, accounting for lead chamfers, because they can be located on the male fastener anywhere, and therefore the 3-5 threads in them will get 1–1/2 to 2 threads engaged, somewhere. The washers are used with them, or forged onto them, in order to provide a reaction surface to use to stretch the male threads once engagement occurs – this is what happens when you turn to torque.
This is also why threads are ground, if the thread engagement is critical. Ground threads are consistently spaced and therefore most consistently engaged along the length of engagement.
BTW, I said "conventional", not "common". The fact that this is the way most things are designed doesn't mean it's the best way, it's just the way.
Interesting, thank you
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- #18
Thank your for the help and discussion. I did not mentally not the thread distance when I took it apart to send off for rebuild or I would have had longer studs put in at the time. Now its be down for three years lust give time to work on it and some hearts surgery. When I took it apart the nuts were on there without the washer and that is what the shop I had put them on originally did. I think that I will see if Ij cans get the yoke machined down a bit and if not run without washers in the short term and switch out the drive shaft.
Added pic of front and the nuts have full engagement.
Added pic of front and the nuts have full engagement.
The DC joint goes on the transfer case side. Your shaft is on backwards.
Looking again, it looks like the shaft was manufactured with the DC on the wrong side. The thinner side of the slip yoke goes to the differential, while the thicker side goes towards the transfer case. But the transfer case side should have the DC joint.
Some better pictures of the entire shaft would help.
Looking again, it looks like the shaft was manufactured with the DC on the wrong side. The thinner side of the slip yoke goes to the differential, while the thicker side goes towards the transfer case. But the transfer case side should have the DC joint.
Some better pictures of the entire shaft would help.
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- Thread starter
- #20
Here are some better pictures. Can’t get whole thing because not lifted high enough.
