Front Diff Isolation: Getting home with a broken diff

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abuck99

abuck99

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Should this ever happen the Cliff notes version of the procedure to get off the trail with Chernobyled locked up front diff is disconnecting the front prop shaft, and removing the drive flanges, locking CDL.

However removing the flanges and then driving presents some problems for spindle, wheel bearings, and the potentiality of pulling the axle out of the back of the knuckle. As a primary self recovery strategy it's what must be done to get yourself off the trail, but it's not optimal for the knuckle components, the hardware, bearings, axle stub, dust seals etc.

I've read some people talk about milling the teeth off an old set of flanges to install in place of the drive flanges simply to keep dirt, water out and keep the axle from backing out of the knuckle for the ride home. If the ride home is 50 miles, maybe less worry, if the ride home is 1500 miles things could be more serious.

Question: who's milled flanges, temporarily installed and run 2wd this way? Did you run into any issues with the the axle stub wearing on the inside of the flange, grinding on the snap ring etc. I think through the potential damage to the axle stub running a long distance, as the flange rotates around it, if it comes in contact rub's scrapes the inside bore of the milled flange and ruins the axle splines, how the snap ring might hold or not hold; will it rotate with the flange and rub the end of the axle stub, or will it stay stationary and rub the end of the flange.

Should the ring gear shed some teeth, other than getting R&P service before driving home ( $$$), is there a better option for a long distance run? Pulling cv axles would require installing plugs/caps/(Flex Tape?) for diff and back of knuckle. Pulling front diff out and removing ring gear is another option maybe.

Longtimers & diff experts feel free to chime in: @spressomon, @rusty_tlc, @paflytyer
 
I've Isolated lots of front diffs and find the best solution is to use a 1gal ziploc bag and install the wheel over that to keep it all covered and in place.

No need to mess with the ring gear or diff; after the prop shaft is out and the CV's are disconnected from the hubs it dosen't spin anymore so no worries about further diff damage or locking up the drive train.
 
Here's the dealio: I think there are probably a million recommendations for swapping in the ARB locker (or similar) ASAP after purchasing a 100 on 'MUD. That, right there, eliminates 99% of the risk of having to wonder about how to...get home after the front diff blows.

Its the BEST insurance investment you could possibly do for yourself if you: A) Don't like trail side fixes; B) Venture away from tow truck ability; C) don't have patience, time or $/$$/$$$ for A or B.

Or you could ignore all the experienced advice on this forum and roll the dice. Then, and its "when" not "if", you'll soon join the discipleship after you fix everything that broke...and then install the ARB anyway.
 
IMO, the best and easiest way to isolate the front diff is to pick up a pair of Aisin selectable hubs (as soon as @cruiseroutfit makes them available a la carte). Turn hubs, drop front driveshaft and you'll be up and running in just a few minutes. The selectable hub is strong but not as strong as the fixed hub and so I'd would certainly carry a fixed hub in the tool bag.
 
hoser said:
IMO, the best and easiest way to isolate the front diff is to pick up a pair of Aisin selectable hubs (as soon as @cruiseroutfit makes them available a la carte). Turn hubs, drop front driveshaft and you'll be up and running in just a few minutes. The selectable hub is strong but not as strong as the fixed hub and so I'd would certainly carry a fixed hub in the tool bag.
Click to expand...
It's on my list.

spressomon said:
Here's the dealio: I think there are probably a million recommendations for swapping in the ARB locker (or similar) ASAP after purchasing a 100 on 'MUD. That, right there, eliminates 99% of the risk of having to wonder about how to...get home after the front diff blows.

Its the BEST insurance investment you could possibly do for yourself if you: A) Don't like trail side fixes; B) Venture away from tow truck ability; C) don't have patience, time or $/$$/$$$ for A or B.

Or you could ignore all the experienced advice on this forum and roll the dice. Then, and its "when" not "if", you'll soon join the discipleship after you fix everything that broke...and then install the ARB anyway.
Click to expand...
Thank for chiming in. I postponed the front locker in lieu of a rear locker a few years ago. But my strategy has been to develop better driving skills....:rolleyes:
 
AimCOtaco said:
I've Isolated lots of front diffs and find the best solution is to use a 1gal ziploc bag and install the wheel over that to keep it all covered and in place.

No need to mess with the ring gear or diff; after the prop shaft is out and the CV's are disconnected from the hubs it dosen't spin anymore so no worries about further diff damage or locking up the drive train.
Click to expand...

What do you do if you grenade a CV on a tough trail, don't have a spare, and need 3WD to get off the trail? Can you pull the bad CV and plug the hole where it goes into the diff? Wad of ductape and teflon with some FIPG?
 
ShenValley100LC said:
Yeah the size for the hub flange is listed (144mm socket) but not the size or what tool is best for drive shaft.
Click to expand...
54mm Socket for hub nut. You'll need 2 long handle 14mm box end wrenches to remove the driveshaft. The nuts are tight and having some leverage helps get the nuts broken loose.
 
BadReligion said:
What do you do if you grenade a CV on a tough trail, don't have a spare, and need 3WD to get off the trail? Can you pull the bad CV and plug the hole where it goes into the diff? Wad of ductape and teflon with some FIPG?
Click to expand...

A Few options:
A. Lots of fuel and an ignition source.
B. You're with friends on this tough trail so you just use a strap here and there.
C. 'B' but for style points you swap diffs back and forth with your friend so you can say you drove the whole trail unassisted.

(Avoid option C at all costs)

Also: The diff is no doubt stronger with a locker installed... but I've broken mine after the ARB install also and am not the only one so it does still occur.

For drive shaft removal; an impact gun, a couple wobble extensions, a 14mm socket and a 14mm box wrench is the magic.
 
abuck99 said:
54mm Socket for hub nut. You'll need 2 long handle 14mm box end wrenches to remove the driveshaft. The nuts are tight and having some leverage helps get the nuts broken loose.
Click to expand...
You don't need to remove the hub nuts to isolate the CV from the drive flange. Just lose the flange.
 
AimCOtaco said:
A Few options:
A. Lots of fuel and an ignition source.
B. You're with friends on this tough trail so you just use a strap here and there.
C. 'B' but for style points you swap diffs back and forth with your friend so you can say you drove the whole trail unassisted.

(Avoid option C at all costs)

Also: The diff is no doubt stronger with a locker installed... but I've broken mine after the ARB install also and am not the only one so it does still occur.

For drive shaft removal; an impact gun, a couple wobble extensions, a 14mm socket and a 14mm box wrench is the magic.
Click to expand...

I don't like any of those. I'm going to add option "D".....keep a spare set of CVs in the truck if you run difficult trails.
 
BadReligion said:
I don't like any of those. I'm going to add option "D".....keep a spare set of CVs in the truck if you run difficult trails.
Click to expand...

Then you need a diff as well, it seems we break more diffs than CV's on these trucks, hence my suggestion of fuel and a good spark.
 
BadReligion said:
What do you do if you grenade a CV on a tough trail, don't have a spare, and need 3WD to get off the trail? Can you pull the bad CV and plug the hole where it goes into the diff? Wad of ductape and teflon with some FIPG?
Click to expand...

*Edit* I am not quite correct. See the next post, but this post was left for continuity of the thread.

This was actually quite simple. You just remove the rubber caps and the rod/bearings from the cups and leave the cups installed. Also, clean the grease from the cups so it doesn't look like the Exxon Valdez crashed behind you while finishing the trail. I did this last year while doing Golden Spike at Cruise Moab. Okay, so maybe it was the Toyota mechanic who did most of the repair work, but I at least handed him the tools I had!

If you really had some miles to get home, this would also be the best fix for a blown front diff. Just do it for both sides and it isn't that hard to do. Then just rebuild and reinstall it all together when you get home. You will also have freshly rebuilt CVs to go with a freshly built diff!

 
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gungriffin said:
This was actually quite simple. You just remove the rubber caps and the rod/bearings from the cups and leave the cups installed. Also, clean the grease from the cups so it doesn't look like the Exxon Valdez crashed behind you while finishing the trail. I did this last year while doing Golden Spike at Cruise Moab. Okay, so maybe it was the Toyota mechanic who did most of the repair work, but I at least handed him the tools I had!

If you really had some miles to get home, this would also be the best fix for a blown front diff. Just do it for both sides and it isn't that hard to do. Then just rebuild and reinstall it all together when you get home. You will also have freshly rebuilt CVs to go with a freshly built diff!

Click to expand...

I can see leaving the inboard tulip, but seem to remember that breaking down the outboard CV requires a press. Can you do it on the trail?
FSM only shows inboard CV apart.
I was thinking you leave the inboard tulip (in yellow), remove the rest of the CV, tape up back of spindle, since drive flange is still on hub side is closed and then head home.

CV inboard.jpg
 
Skidoo said:
I can see leaving the inboard tulip, but seem to remember that breaking down the outboard CV requires a press. Can you do it on the trail?
FSM only shows inboard CV apart.
I was thinking you leave the inboard tulip (in yellow), remove the rest of the CV, tape up back of spindle, since drive flange is still on hub side is closed and then head home.

View attachment 2366515
Click to expand...

It was the wheel side tulip that broke and allowed the connecting rod to come free from the wheel side tulip. All we had to remove was the the connecting rod from the diff side tulip. I was remembering this incorrectly. Thank you for the correction.
 
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@gungriffin I was thinking about how it could be done the last time I had CVs out, good to know you have a field tested method. ;) Nice of the CV to break it a way that made it a bit simpler.
 
abuck99 said:
......

However removing the flanges and then driving presents some problems for spindle, wheel bearings, and the potentiality of pulling the axle out of the back of the knuckle. As a primary self recovery strategy it's what must be done to get yourself off the trail, but it's not optimal for the knuckle components, the hardware, bearings, axle stub, dust seals etc.

......
Click to expand...
I wouldn't worry about collateral damage if you have already blown the diff. If you have to remove and replace the center section you should probably replace all the serviceable parts while you have the front axle disassembled. I am pretty sure the CV wouldn't be able to pull out the backside of the knuckle without some extreme flexing. If you have the glass OEM differential in there and spent enough money for that kind of suspension mod................
 
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