FJ80 TREs on SUA60s???

[Trapper50cal]

So I see that you tacked on a tab for your steering stabilizer on the draglink so you could utilize the stock frame mount point as well, hows that working out? I'm thinking of doing the same thing. How did you decide where to put it? What is measurement from Pittman TRE to tab?

BTW, Money Order for tailgate lid is inbound today!!!!

 

[ntsqd]

I'm curious about the stabilizer tab as well. I can see where a poorly made clamp could shift, but with either a well made clamp or some rings welded to the tube to key the position (or both!) I don't think it would be something to worry about.

 

[kevinmrowland]

Any updates? Is the salt taking its toll yet?

I guess the only update would be that there are no updates?
That is a good thing.
Set it and forget it, just the way I like things like this.
I've gone back in a few times and checked the knuckle arm torque per 4x4Labs suggestion, but no change, and the steering has been great the whole time. Seems to take about 2 seasons for the salt to do it's work, so the jury is still out, but so far everything looks great. The new design is much better sealed up and fewer moving parts, so it can't help but be better.
[still working on hardware for you]

lcwizard The thread diameter of the 60 and 80 relay rods are the same..21mm.
The threads of the 60 and 80 tie rod ends are the same 23mm.
The 80 is heavier duty than the 60 rod ends is a myth , I don't know where it started.
If you compare the tie rods side by side I'd rather run the 60. The 80 has deeper cut
just outside the threads before the post suggesting it may even be weaker.

All spot on, except the durability was not the real issue here, the fact that I can no longer get OE quality 60 TREs and the aftermarket options out there are crap, drove this modification.
The bonus was getting the relay rod to sit at an appropriate angle to the new steering arms and having the relay rod attach directly to the steering arm.
The better style relay and tie rods could be made for either 60 or 80 parts in the same style, but the lack of good 60 parts prompted the full upgrade.

Trapper50cal So I see that you tacked on a tab for your steering stabilizer on the draglink so you could utilize the stock frame mount point as well, hows that working out? I'm thinking of doing the same thing. How did you decide where to put it? What is measurement from Pittman TRE to tab?

BTW, Money Order for tailgate lid is inbound today!!!!

The tab is not the best solution, but I went that route because I could not find any nice clamps for the relay shock mount. There are ones out there, but not salt environment ready ones, they have to be cut off for any adjustments once the rust sets in.
The tab placement was a bit arbitrary, I used the old relay to pitman measurement as reference and adjusted from there.
The best solution would obviously be something that spins on the rod because the welded tab limits placement, but I did not have any trouble getting everything to line up and the steering wheel is level.

ntsqd I'm curious about the stabilizer tab as well. I can see where a poorly made clamp could shift, but with either a well made clamp or some rings welded to the tube to key the position (or both!) I don't think it would be something to worry about.

Yup, exactly. There are better ways, I made due with what I had since I did not like the u bolt style clamps that are available.
In a non salt climate they would be fine, I doubt there is any danger in a slippage, but a better, sealed, more streamlined clamp option would be good. I like your ring idea. Maybe a channel for a captive tab to ride around the tube in? That would let the shock sit where it wants and still facilitate relay adjustment....

 

[ntsqd]

What I was thinking of was something like this:

Based on McMaster P/N 6436K45 (or similar for a different tube size):

I don't think that the anchor itself should be allowed to rotate at will, but it needs to be able to do so for length adjustment. The mcmaster part only adds two more bolts to the process.

 

[Scotty]

So, how much actual lift are you running on yours?

 

[kevinmrowland]

What I was thinking of was something like this:

I don't think that the anchor itself should be allowed to rotate at will, but it needs to be able to do so for length adjustment. The mcmaster part only adds two more bolts to the process.

That would be nice, if you could find a wider clamp flange you could still weld the old shock tab onto it. Other wise I am not sure how you would facilitate attaching the shock, but that style is what I originally had in mind.

Scotty So, how much actual lift are you running on yours?

Not really sure, there are way too many variables, age, springs, shackles and my truck is a different weight and weight distribution than most 60s. I would guess in the 3.5-4" range, but a total guess.

 

[euclid]

Kev, Any changes you would request if you were ordering this for my rig? I think I have a little more lift on my truck than yours. OME 2.5's and the longest shackles HFS makes.

 

[kevinmrowland]

Hummmmmmm,..........nope.
it's perfect.

I'll think about it some more, but there have not been any issues at all.

And please tell me you had some new toys there for your trip?

 

[agent orange]

I dont have time to read this whole thread but i got a full set of OEM rod ends and rods and it was like 285 or something. Expensive, yes, but i should get another 20 years out of them.

 

[euclid]

Hummmmmmm,..........nope.
it's perfect.

I'll think about it some more, but there have not been any issues at all.

And please tell me you had some new toys there for your trip?

Cool, thanks.
Nope, got to my house the day I left for TX. I haven't installed yet, will be a few weeks.

 

[kevinmrowland]

Just a quick update, steering is simply great, but wanted to update on the OE v Aftermarket end comparison test.

Just got back from a 10k mile road trip, the only mechanical issue from the trip was a failed rod end, very badly worn about half way through the trip (after a few k washboard miles). The good news is that it was SO nice and simple to change out the end with the nice rods and lock nuts, basically an in-the-field fix, and done with the tools in the truck.

You might remember that I ran two aftermarket ends from 4X4Labs and two from Mr.T. After a little more than a year of use (hard use) and regular greasing, one of the aftermarket ends failed, the other one is a TINY bit loose, the Toyota ones are still tight.
I'll be going with the Toyota ones.

The caveat to all this is of course, THE DAMN SALT. I am positive that these ends are excellent, they just do not stand up to the extreme abuse of being blasted with salt water all winter and the long rough trips we take them on.

KR

 

[smkymntn]

Hey Kevin- I am looking at doing the 4x4labs tie rod setup you have- how about a 2010 update and salt damage report.

Better yet is this kit still avail?

 

[euclid]

I haven't installed the kit I got from luke right before christmas, but it shiped within a few days of my order.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Hey Kevin- I am looking at doing the 4x4labs tie rod setup you have- how about a 2010 update and salt damage report.

Better yet is this kit still avail?

I was just up at 4x4 Labs and everything is available. Even if it isn't, he has the mill programmed and can make one for you in real time.

4x4 Labs = HIGHLY RECOMMENDED. Luke is probably the most thoughtful and innovative guy in the Toyota 4x4 world right now.

I have 2 trucks with his steering, and based on that experience would recommend the Chevy 1 ton ends in an in front of the axle configuration. 80 ends will work fine, but the Chevy ends are the beef.

BTW, looking at Kevin's pics, you could consider running an 80 Pittman arm to raise it a bit and avoid contact with the the tie rod during axle articulation. It works and you can have Luke ream the 80 Pittman to fit the GM end.

Good Luck.

 

[Moby]

I'm just about to order this same setup for my FJ-62. I'd really like the Frombe steer but I don't have enough lift (OME) so I'm going with the forward facing arms as well. I've been on a mission lately to dial in my steering and handling and hopefully this will be the last piece of work.

For the steering stabilizer issue I'm thinking of one of these and welding the stock tab to it: Poly Performance Inc. :: Tube Clamps & Flanges :: O.D. Tube Clamp - Jeep JK Synergy Suspension Systems, Fox Racing Shox, Beard, CTM, Johnny Joints®, Currie Enterprises, Edelbrock, Total Chaos, Ramsey Winch, Walker Evans, Wilwood, Mastercraft, CNC Bra Assuming that the 4x4Labs rods fall into the OD range that these are offered in of course.

 

[ntsqd]

What I was thinking of was something like this:

Based on McMaster P/N 6436K45 (or similar for a different tube size):

I don't think that the anchor itself should be allowed to rotate at will, but it needs to be able to do so for length adjustment. The mcmaster part only adds two more bolts to the process.

That would be nice, if you could find a wider clamp flange you could still weld the old shock tab onto it. Other wise I am not sure how you would facilitate attaching the shock, but that style is what I originally had in mind.


Not really sure, there are way too many variables, age, springs, shackles and my truck is a different weight and weight distribution than most 60s. I would guess in the 3.5-4" range, but a total guess.

I just realized that I'd never explained what I was thinking about how the damper would mount. That hole in the end of the tab is for either a stud or, less desirably, a bolt (if you must). It could easily be that the tab itself is not needed at all and that the stud can be welded directly to the shaft collar. The closer that mount can be to the drag link, the less need there is for additional width in the clamp.

Something that I have recently run into, and haven't decided what to do about just yet, is inability to grease the FJ80 TRE's that are part of the cross-over steering conversion that I built for my Mini: https://forum.ih8mud.com/79-95-toyota-truck-tech/270775-cross-over-3-lift.html. All 4 TRE's came from Marlin as part of their tie rod/drag link products.

All of the TREs have grease zerks. Those on the tie rod are a couple years old and are still tight, but I have never been able to pump any grease into them. By "never" I mean that the gun pumps up a bit, and then either stalls (as in Hercules himself might be able to move the handle, but a mere mortal? Not!) or it bleeds grease out of the connection regardless of the orientation of the connector. Those on the drag link are 3-4 months old and I can pump grease into one of them - of course it's the one least in harm's way, but not the other. I attempted to change the zerks themselves to see if that made any difference. All but one of the zerks came out fine and were replaced. One blew the 'tit' (can I say that here?) off the end of it while attempting to grease that TRE, and it now spins w/o actually unthreading out of the TRE. I fear that those threads are gone and a new zerk won't stay in place. I had to take the gun fitting apart to get the zerk 'tit' out of it anyway so I changed the fitting on the end of grease gun's hose as a 'just in case'.

 

[kevinmrowland]

Missed the new posts here, sorry about that.
Anyway steering setup is still great, but it is time for an update.


Remember how I ran half a set of greaseable aftermarket 80 ends and half a set of OE 80 ends to compare longevity and rust resistance?
Well the aftermarket ones failed the test miserably. One of them wore pretty much completely out and the other one started to get loose, the OE ones are still in great shape though.

So I am still sold on running the Toyota ends (the reason for starting down this road in the first place) but they have to be the OE ones for me.

The salt kills the 1 ton ends around here as well, but I noticed in the last Speedway catalog that they had some stainless tie rod ends listed for about the same price as a TRE from Mr. T, they may have only been for Ford ends though, that might be a great option as well.

KR

 

[RockDoc]

Wish I remembered this thread again before I started one of my own. Came home from a TLCA event with a certificate from 4x4labs, looks like I'll be picking up this setup.