FJ60 Power Steering Conversion for FJ40 while keeping air pump

[wallybanger]

Awesome thread I have a 40 and a 60 sitting in my driveway and the 60PS setup will now be getting poached along with the engine

Wow tlc_4play, your cruiser makes me sick to my stomach. That thing is too nice and just thinking about how much work and money that must have taken is crazy. Maybe mine will look like that one day!

 

[PabloCruise]

It might be a little late for some of you but a LH side 70 series TRE would do the trick without having to shorten the relay rod.

So I wanted to fire this post up as I have gotten some information related to 70 series components.

To keep things complete in this thread, I have copied all the contents from the thread in the 70 series section:

*Warning* I know very little about 70 series!!!

I am writing in response to quote that came up in my thread on putting 60 series relay rod on my 40 after doing a 60 series PS swap onto my 40 (details of cnversion here: https://forum.ih8mud.com/co-wy-hors...g-conversion-fj40-while-keeping-air-pump.html)

Someone posted up the following:

I am trying to figure out what they mean?

Are they talking using the whole 70 series relay rod?

Is a 70 series relay rod the correct width for a 40/55 axle?

Does it take the same threads as a 60 series TRE?

Do 70 series relay rods have two rebuildable joints at the end like a 60 series?

Any insight on this would be appreciated...

drag link alone is 30.375". Stud to stud is about 38.375" give or take with adjustment. Stud taper is toyota large, same as 60 series. Threads are 21mm. Rod ends are rebuildable, same as 60. Pitman end rod end is shorter than 60 series, knuckle end should be the same.

Wow, this is some good info - thanks!

Is the 21 mm thread the same as 60 series?

When you say knuckle end should be the same, do you mean the tie rod going from knuckle to knuckle is the same length as a 60, or same lenght ass a 40, or am I reading you incorreclty?

Thanks!

The rebuildable lower TRE (actually the drag link end) that connects to the tie rod should be the same between 60 and 70 series I think. The drag link end that connects to the pitman arm (has the female taper for the steering damper) is shorter on the 70 series. This is probably the part that the other post made reference to.

My $.02, have the pitman arm taper bored to a larger GM taper (.667"-.776"). Use a moog ES375 rod end (3/4 - 16 thread) on this end and the Spector or Downey or whoevers "metric to imperial" drag link to connect the GM rod end to the original toyota rod end. All this is contingent on the drag link being long enough (and check that they thread the SAE end to 3/4-16, it's been a long time since I've used one).

The other option would be to use an ES375 on the pitman arm end and an ES150 (smaller GM taper .636"-.714") at the tie rod end providing there's enough metal for the toyota passenger side tie rod end to be bored to fit the GM taper. Then have a drag link made w/ 3/4 - 16 threaded ends, get some jam nuts, bob's your uncle.

Are the drag link ends 21mm and the tie rod ends 23mm?

Yes

I just went though this with a friend on his FJ40 last weekend. If you want to use all factory parts here's a list...

Use a 70 series drag link end at the box, it will have the tapered hole you need for the steering stabilizer. Use the 70 series drag link, unmodified. Use a rh thread( drivers side) 40 series tie rod end at the lower end of the drag ling where it connects to the tapered hole in the PS tie rod end. Leave the 40 series tie rod end and tie rods alone.

Awesome info! Any idea where I can order up 70 series parts?

This is the only part I do not understand - wouldn't I need to use a passenger side TRE at the lower end of drag link?

Also, where to get 70 series stuff in the US?

I don't think so. You want the tie rod end (not draglink) with rh threads and no tapered hole in it. I'm sure thats the drivers side one but you'll be using it in the draglink on the passenger side. I checked the package and I we used a TRE kit from a '79 and later *j40

I think I am with you.

Another question, and I am not trying to be difficult, just have lots of questions - why not use the 40 series relay rod end that would normally mate up to the PS tie rod end w/ hole?

The 40 series relay rod is a smaller diameter rod than the 70 which might actually be the identical rod to the 60. The 60 uses a longer Drag link end at the box to make up the difference.

So if I use driver's side TRE, it has the correct threads for the passenger side of the relay rod? This just seems counter-intuitive to me...

TJ, I believe the threads are all the same for TREs, the only difference is that on an FJ40 the passenger side TRE has an extra tapered hole to accept the (draglink? sorry I don't know my terminology). The driver's side TRE does not have this extra hole (extra length), it's just a plain-jane TRE. And for using the 70 series components that's what you want. It has nothing to do with the threads. I think. I knew it would work! So Lowenbrau it all went together with no cutting/welding/fabbing? Yeah baby, I bet we could get one of these from Cruiserdan or have one of you guys ship us one in a box from a wrecking yard.

Well my suspicion is that one side, driver or passenger is reverse threaded, which is why I was pestering lowenbrau.

If DS and PS had the same threads, the length of the relay rod or con rod would never change - correct?

you're right, just realized that. I dunno, I guess if he did it and it worked then there's a fair chance it's good to go by. Besides, there are four TREs IIRC on a 40 anyway, so one of them ought to work

Got a chance to look at a 40 and 70 last night. The 40 TRE with the tapered hole is left-hand thread while the TRE that goes in the tapered hole is right-hand thread. the driver's side TRE is right-hand thread I'm assuming, since you're right it would have to be opposite the passenger side so you can adjust toe-in on the truck.

This makes more sense to me now...

I am getting some updated information on lengths of relay rods and p/n's. I anticipate being able to post updates soon!

I need to replace the TRE ends on my BJ74 and have been following this thread. Flame at will but it seems to me that you could just bolt up the TRE's to the Tie Rod (off the vehicle) and then put(the whole setup on the steering arms to make the longer one with the hole go on the appropriate side(both TRe's would have correct threads for adjustment if you bought both a L and R side)correct?

 

[PabloCruise]

Matt Miller (Subzali) did some measuring to compare how 60 components in the relay rod compare to 70 series relay rods:

 

[PabloCruise]

I am trying to get down to an apples to apples comparison to Subzali's data.

Matt wrote:

On the passenger side of the tie rod there is a hole where the drag link plugs in. From that hole to the edge of the frame needs to be about 35" for this system to work.

On my 40, the relay rod (hybrid of 40 & 60 rods and ends) measures 37 7/8" zerk to zerk. The zerks are centered on each TRE.

The length of the rod itself is 26 1/2"

 

[PabloCruise]

My 55 also has 60 series PS, done by the PO. This set up uses 60 ends at both ends of the relay rod, and the 60 relay rod has been sectioned. On the 55, there is a slight difference in frame dimensions. The box is bolted directly to the frame rail on this application. The frame has been sleeved. I went ahead and got measurements on the 55:

Zerk to zerk: 37 1/8"

Relay rod length: 25 1/4"

Pics of how the 60 box mounts to 55 frame:

 

[PabloCruise]

So it looks like it will be important to get some measurements on the 70 series DS relay rod TRE to determine if the 70 series relay rod will work!

Wesintl got me some p/n's for 70 series, but he commented that it looks like you cannot get the driver's relay rod TRE.

45045-69045 pass relay tre
45451-60100 relay rod
45044-69085 drivers relay tre

45046-69115 pass tie rod tre
45461-60100 Tie rod
45047-69065 driver tie rod tre

-Wes

Does anyone have access to these parts and could provide a pic and measurement of the DS relay rod TRE?

 

[PabloCruise]

Final posts for the night:

Subzali sent me some pics with measurements comparing 40 and 60 componentry (the second pic should be labeled "B"):

 

[PabloCruise]

Rest of Subzali's pics:

 

[PabloCruise]

One more from Subzali:

 

[PabloCruise]

Matt,

If we replace the 60 series relay rod TRE that plugs into "B" with a 40 series "A", will the taper be right for the hole in "B"?

 

[subzali]

I believe so. Because "A" has the small taper for the small pattern steering arms, it should have the same small taper for "B". Late 40/60/70 rod ends have the larger tapers for the large pattern steering arms etc.

I am going to call up a dealership in Canada to see if I can get the 70 series rod end, if not I know they come in a TRE kit from SOR.

 

[PabloCruise]

I believe so. Because "A" has the small taper for the small pattern steering arms, it should have the same small taper for "B". Late 40/60/70 rod ends have the larger tapers for the large pattern steering arms etc.

I am going to call up a dealership in Canada to see if I can get the 70 series rod end, if not I know they come in a TRE kit from SOR.

This makes sense about the taper - good call.

If you get the 70 DS TRE for relay rod, we could get that "zerk to zerk" measurement and compare to the relay rod measurements I have on the 40 and 55. I am surprised they came out so close.

I did not even think of SOR! Here is their pic for LHD 70 series TRE kit:

and here is their 60 series TRE kit (the DS relay rod TRE looks to be a lot longer):

 

[subzali]

If you look at my sketch above, I estimate that it's about 4 1/4" longer.

 

[wesintl]

Wesintl got me some p/n's for 70 series, but he commented that it looks like you cannot get the driver's relay rod TRE.

That comment was that it doen't cross over to a US part #. and isn't available in the us. it's probably available from a canadian dealer.

 

[belaw]

I believe so. Because "A" has the small taper for the small pattern steering arms, it should have the same small taper for "B". Late 40/60/70 rod ends have the larger tapers for the large pattern steering arms etc.

I am going to call up a dealership in Canada to see if I can get the 70 series rod end, if not I know they come in a TRE kit from SOR.

Fascinating thread. As I understand it, the issue you're trying to tackle is finding a relay rod of the correct length with ends that will fit the 60 pitman arm on one end and the stock 40 tie rod on the other; the problem you're wrestling with is that the 60 pitman arm has a large taper, while "hole B" (where the relay rod joints the PS tie rod end) has a small taper, so you're having to "mix and match" TRE's- right?

Front Range will make a custom rod for $60, so that part's easy once you figure out the length.

But what if you have a late-model 40 with large pattern steering arms. Would "hole B" have the same larger taper as the TRE's? If so, if you have large-patter knuckles, could you just use stock 70 TRE's and relay rod ends on a shortened/custom relay rod????

 

[PabloCruise]

That comment was that it doen't cross over to a US part #. and isn't available in the us. it's probably available from a canadian dealer.

Good to know, thanks for the clarification.

 

[PabloCruise]

Fascinating thread. As I understand it, the issue you're trying to tackle is finding a relay rod of the correct length with ends that will fit the 60 pitman arm on one end and the stock 40 tie rod on the other; the problem you're wrestling with is that the 60 pitman arm has a large taper, while "hole B" (where the relay rod joints the PS tie rod end) has a small taper, so you're having to "mix and match" TRE's- right?

Yes. Additionally, I believe the threads on '78 and earlier tie rod (but not relay rod) are 21mm, same as 60 series tie rod and relay rod. Sounds like 70 series are the same. Final constraint is if you want to make a functional rod piece, you must have left hand threads at one end, and right hand threads at the other.

Front Range will make a custom rod for $60, so that part's easy once you figure out the length.

Yes, I checked in with them regarding this. I think I will use them to make tie rod for my 55 when I switch to 60 series knuckles.

But what if you have a late-model 40 with large pattern steering arms. Would "hole B" have the same larger taper as the TRE's? If so, if you have large-patter knuckles, could you just use stock 70 TRE's and relay rod ends on a shortened/custom relay rod????

Good question! And, could you just use 70 series relay rod and TRE's?

 

[belaw]

Good question! And, could you just use 70 series relay rod and TRE's?

From what I've read above the 70 series relay rod is the right length, but I think locating one in the U.S. might be tough (and expensive), which is why I mentioned using a "custom" rod. The TRE's appear to be a stock item with SOR, so they're no problem.

 

[PabloCruise]

I wonder if SOR has any used 70's relay rods...

 

[subzali]

Yes. Additionally, I believe the threads on '78 and earlier tie rod (but not relay rod) are 21mm, same as 60 series tie rod and relay rod. Sounds like 70 series are the same. Final constraint is if you want to make a functional rod piece, you must have left hand threads at one end, and right hand threads at the other.

Front Range will make a custom rod for $60, so that part's easy once you figure out the length.

Yes, I checked in with them regarding this. I think I will use them to make tie rod for my 55 when I switch to 60 series knuckles.

But what if you have a late-model 40 with large pattern steering arms. Would "hole B" have the same larger taper as the TRE's? If so, if you have large-patter knuckles, could you just use stock 70 TRE's and relay rod ends on a shortened/custom relay rod????

Good question! And, could you just use 70 series relay rod and TRE's?

The fun part is trying to use all Toyota stuff - but you're right it would probably be better to have a custom one made. Oh well

Here's my definitions for rods:
Relay Rod - on stock 40s only, from pitman arm forward to center arm
Drag Link - from 70/60 pitman arm to tie rod or from FJ40 center arm to tie rod
Tie Rod - Rod that connects steering arms of two wheels together

If you have a later model 40, I imagine the stock 70 series parts for the drag link will work.

For clarification, here is what I think I know about steering rods:
late 40/60/70 drag link - 19mm
late 40/60/70 tie rod - 21mm

mid 40 drag link and relay rod - 17mm
mid 40 tie rod - 19mm

FJ25/early 40 tie rod ends (the tie rod is 19mm I believe but it tapers down at the ends) - 17mm (I'm guessing)

This is why the mid 40 tie rod end will thread on the 60/70 drag link.

I would think that all the tapers (including B) got bigger on later years, but I don't know how you spec out a taper.