Build dougbert's future 350 swap: How much torque is too much?

[norsk]

last night installed the new lifters in the driver's side and their noise went away! Good

Now I can hear another tick on the passenger's side, so will pull valve cover and see which one is making the noise.
Sure is an iterative process.

Then work on the exhaust leaks. Engine building can be fun and frustrating at times

Then got sick during the night - ate something that my body didn't like. Tough morning

dougbert

 

[Slow Left]

Then got sick during the night - eat something that my body didn't like.

Well, it is Cinco de Mayo, afterall...that's the only way to really celebrate it...

 

[norsk]

Engine sounds much better than before, but still an issue so I went out this morning and tried adjusting lifters on passenger side to isolate that loud tick. There is still the exhaust leak so that is loud in the video.

took a video of operation after the adjustment, and the oil is burning off the exhaust manifold.

These are retro-roller lifters and I read that they can be noisy but there is a single tick hitting and the video does capture that if you listen closely:



Comp CAM parts:
new CAM --- Grind #12-409-8, Extreme 4x4 Retro CAM X4258HR
new retro-roller lifters --- 853-16
new pushrods --- 7955-16
new roller rockers with roller tips --- 1617-18 Ultra Pro-Magnum

New GMPP Vortec heads 25534421 http://www.strokerengine.com/VortecHeads.html
Not a stroker engine, original crank, connecting rods, and flywheel
New pistons, .060 inch over, new rings
New main and rod bearings, don't remember size needed
New intake manifold

Short Block put together WITH my machinist's oversight, plastic-gauged bearings

10:1 compression
91 Octane fuel

I set pre-load per Comp CAMs instructions, 1 full turn after zero-lash.
Used mechanics stethoscope and noticed big difference between exhaust rockers (sounded just fine) and intake rockers: each intake has a noticeable tick.
The tick in the video seems to be located in the cylinder 6 and 8 areas.

I have sent an email to Comp Cams and included the same link to the youtube video as above. Their forums have many responses to other customers that their roller lifters are noisy and sound like a sewing machine. Okay I buy that, but that single tick bothers me. I assume it is a valve train issue, but could it be some other rotating part that is hitting something else?

I did watch the CompCAMs video on all of this:



I did soak the lifters in mineral spirits when I got them, followed by a good soak in clean engine oil (Mobil 1)

Suggestions welcome on isolating this tick

 

[Elbert]

something appears to be wrong with either the rocker arm(s) or lifter(s)... That ticking can't be right. I've always adjusted hydraulic lifters hot and with the engine running, but follow directions if you have specific direction otherwise.

Nothing obvious with two much "slop/play" between rocker arm and push rod/valve? Do you have to run roller lifters for any reason? Have you tried "normal" hydraulic lifters... don't know if you have roller cam.

 

[norsk]

something appears to be wrong with either the rocker arm(s) or lifter(s)... That ticking can't be right. I've always adjusted hydraulic lifters hot and with the engine running, but follow directions if you have specific direction otherwise.

Nothing obvious with two much "slop/play" between rocker arm and push rod/valve? Do you have to run roller lifters for any reason? Have you tried "normal" hydraulic lifters... don't know if you have roller cam.

It is a Roller CAM for sure. From the start, I wanted those to gain a bit more power.

All brand new lifters (2 months for passenger side, 1 week for driver's side) and pushrods (which are straight). New Ultra Pro-Magnum rockers as well. GMPP springs that came with the heads.

Followed instructions for pre-load by doing 1 full turn with engine off and lifter on cam circle.
Then, with engine running, adjusted those intake lifters which were ticking, by tightening down some more, but no change in the tick, then backed them off.

have read that some Comp CAM lifters were bad brand new, but not common.

dougbert

 

[Elbert]

apparently you have some issue with the combination of parts, either something is not designed to work together or something does not make sense really. GM 5.7 well known combinations... When engine is warm and you adjust the rocker arms....you tighten until the ticking goes away and then snug down another quarter turn or so. If you can't get the ticking out of the equation on certain rocker arms...then it seems to be thats you problem area and that would be easy to point specifically at. If the ticking is across the board... I would think you have a problem with your parts selection. Else something in your setup is wrong. I've always run new cam new lifter and with matched or paired components, Assumptions are that are your push-rods are stock length and thats appropriate and other components are known solutions. Non odball rocker arm ratios or interference with guide plates or valve cover (no obvious physical interference). Proper valve springs.. With that kind of noise its almost like you should see the rocker loose or be able to physcally move the rocker arm around with engine off too easy.

Does not make sense that you would have multiple combinations of raw parts failures.

 

[norsk]

see post 603, which lists all the parts as per COMP CAMS specification/recommendations

1.52 rockers

 

[norsk]

Fab'd the Ranger overdrive shifter (idea from JohninFla) using a FJ62 auto shifter and cut the hole for the shifter (yeah, that is some heat insulating foam on the hump, for under the carpet):

Had to cut a bit more out of the hole to allow the handle to fully come back

and the shifter fully forward

 

[JohninFla]

Looks like you got it Doug! I stuck an 8 ball on mine, I thought it added character!

 

[norsk]

Came across this photo and it really hit home for me, especially since I have had issues with jack stands out in the wet field where the fj60 is resting (BTW, I did drive the rig around the "Cruiser-barn" yard in a test case. Shows the clutch works - yeah! The brakes work! Power Steering works! And nothing fell off!):

Been raining like crazy here so not much outdoor activity has been going on for the FJ60. Lost 3 saturdays to that, and this weekend flying to Seattle for a granddaughter's wedding.
Wish I had my own barn on these rainy days.

Did pull together parts to make my horn wiring harness so I can work on that at home and install later.

With the rain falling, I also pulled the GMC's "new" 5.3L engine on its stand into the barn to begin the re-assembly. I installed new rod bearings, re-honing the cylinders and new rings. Man, I really like this 5.3L engine. Great engine to work on. But that story is for another non-TLC thread. I also look forward to more future 5.3L installs.

dougbert

 

[norsk]

Rain has ceased and sunny warm weather showed up in the past couple of days, so yesterday started serious work on the body of the fj60.

Couple of pics with all the tarps off. jake will work on the cowl, welding up the 5 spots where the rust went through.

I started on the inside of the roof over the front driver's and passenger's seats. I have painted the edges of the roof with Eastwood Internal Frame paint - it has that nice nozzle that can fit into tight holes. Since it is so difficult to get to the inner edges behind the housing, I am hoping that will provide some barrier and rust "slow down". I then used Zero Rust for a primer base. Before that I high speed wire brushed the thickest parts of the adhesion "rock" left from last year, so it is mostly flat. Using Zero Rust, and then a flat black paint cover.

Going with Lizard Skin, sound followed by thermal barriers, topped off with Monstaliner, Brown Eyed Girl.


Question: Those screws on the cross members are really, really hard to move. How have others get them removed?

dougbert

 

[norsk]

Lots of tasks finished today, especially some painting.

Primed inside/underside of roof with Zero Rust, 3 coats, also under the lip painted with Eastwood internal rust paint, with the long nozzle.
Not smooth due to I didn't get ALL the glue off, but that is okay because will be painting with LizardSkin sound deadener and thermar barrier, then finished with coats of Monstaliner, so those bumps will be hidden

Toward the front:

and the rear

Rear Hatch with Monstaliner, Brown Eyed Girl color

Painted parts of roof, until I ran out of paint. I only had 1 quart and didn't know how far it would go.
Put a pint in the paint tray and painted 1st coat until it was gone, then used the 2nd pint for 2nd coat.
I like this stuff

Right rear side of roof with Monstaliner

Why do I have a 5 picture limit, when I see others with more pics in their posts?

dougbert

 

[norsk]

Here is the cowl with 1st coat of Rust Bullet on it.

Shall I put Monstaliner as the final coat or a Shell Black?

dougbert

 

[JohninFla]

Doug

Looks great! I like the brown eyed girl color.

John

 

[norsk]

was looking through other posts for today and read the one on E46 BMW 3xx seat install and torfab's brackets

welll I got the brackets a couple of weeks ago and after reading that thread today, I did a very quick browse of EBAY and low and behold there was a pair of brown seats for sale for $225 + $100 shipping. I bought it

link to my post on that thread https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/bmw-seats-torfab-brackets-install-ahhhhhh.858254/#post-9795846

quick pic of the seats here

I feel lucky today. Time to go do some more sanding with a smile, Geezz that feels good

dougbert

 

[norsk]

sanding top part of driver's side of truck, I have now decided to take off all the black Herculier and paint Monstaliner over entire outside of the truck

Left Jake working on the roof patches, here are pics of 2 of them tacked in

 

[boots4]

I like how easy the liner goes on. I hope to get mine lined one of these years.

 

[norsk]

Yes the liner went on VERY easy. Prep is the hard part

and speaking of prep, after a bunch of wife TODO completions, I was able to get to the truck around 6PM - right.

I masked off the edge of the roof down inside and sprayed the first coat of LizardSkin sound deadener. It had the consistency of wrestling mud and was grayish. Took a bit more than 2 quarts, but I sprayed enough so it would run down inside the roof edges. I learned on thickness - never have used a sprayer before in all my decades - and covered the whole inside. Looked good - and I got my hair into it as I worked backward. Washes up with water, but is gets hard fairly fast.

Here are pics looking forward at the dash and the last one is a close up of the texture. If you touch it when wet, is messes it up royally, so let it dry. One more coat on monday and will let it dry. Will see if it dry enough on tuesday for the first of 2 coats of thermal spray, also water based. A gallon of Monstaliner should be here on monday

Costs:
$75 for the 1st quart of Monstaliner and application kit
$175 for next gallon of Monstaliner, extra roller, and Brown Eye Girl color
$159 for 2 gallons of LizardSkin sound deadener
$159 for 2 gallons of LizardSkin Ceramic Insulation
$80 for LizardSkin Sprayer
$16 for sprayer for Monstaliner
$75 for Zero Rust which I used for a primer

Might need more Monstaliner, but have more than enough LizardSking left over.

one coat covers the remnants of the glue rough spots as I thought it world

And the "wet" texture, it is a dark gray:

 

[norsk]

Applied the 2nd coat of LizardSkin sound deadener this morning before work - doesn't take long. I might apply the 1st coat of the ceramic insulator this evening if this last coat is dry. 90 degrees out there today.

So, 2 coats of the sound deadener took 1 gallon of material to finish the inside roof. I could have bought just 1 gallon and saved some money. But I have the extra gallon, and the directions says I can put it on the inner wheel wells (both sound deadener and insulator), so I think I will do that. Possibly the rear quarter panels after they have been fixed up. I won't just let the stuff sit around since they have a 6 months viability after opening on the shelf. I will use them on the truck somewhere.

I am glad of the outcome of this material - looks good.

EVENING UPDATE: The thermal barrier was thicker and used more of it. Used 4 full QUARTS (1 gallon) on 1st coat this evening, leaving one gallon for 2nd coat tomorrow morning.

Got the gallon of Monstaliner, and it indicates 2 to 3 coats of colored liner, with 1 hour between coats. I should be able to to that tomorrow evening, there is enough time. And remaining amount is good for couple of days IN the can with 2 oz of MEK covering the residue to keep from the air.

Pic of 1st coat of thermal barrier, it is black, not gray like the sound stuff:

NEXT MORNING UPDATE:

put 2nd coat of thermal barrier on and it took 3 quarts for that. But had a bit over 1 quart left, so did a light 3rd coat with the remainder, and had a cup in the bucket and in the bottom of the "cup" of the applicator. So, was done. Cleaned up, and let it dry today 95+ today here in the mountains - wow, a high pressure over the rockies.

Planning now on the Monstaliner layer.

 

[norsk]

got notified that my BMW seats arrived at my friend's store (with a dock) and went and picked them up this morning. Here is a pic of them - they look great, with the 60 on the right in the background along with the pickup on the left rear - almost have the 5.3L together, measuring pushrod length and then will order them. 5.3L wire harness under the blue tarp:

Last night, I applied the 1st coat of Monstaliner by sprayer to the inside roof. 1 hour later I applied the 2nd coat and this morning the 3rd coat.
In between I applied it to pillars, cowl, top of roof, upper sides, door runners on the body, via roller.

Some observations:

I have used the 1 quart product, cost $45 and have used the 1 gallon product, cost $128, plus the cost of color dye, rollers etc.

In the 1 quart product, one can mix all the materials in the 1 quart can I really liked that. For the 1 gallon, you have first mix the base in the 1 gallon can with the color THEN pour that into a 2 gallon pail, THEN add the catalyst and mix there. THEN pour most of the result back into the 1 gallon can, and use the remainder to do "cutting".
I found I left a lot of paint on the inside of the 2 gallon pail. Also, I found myself running faster as the remainder of the paint started getting skin. If I had been spraying the entire rig then the gallon product would be fine. But as I am spot painting I am going to get the 1 quart product (2 or 3 of them) and use them 1 quart at a time. That will save me effort and paint, even though it will be a few dollars more per unit of paint.

I did finish the top of the roof along with the inside of the roof, the cowl, the upper parts of the pillars and the tail hatch and tail gate. Am ordering more quarts to cover the lower parts of the pillars, along under the doors, touch up, etc.

After I took the pic of the seats, the camera's battery died so I counldn't take any more pics. Will get them tonight.

A nice thing about using liner for the entire rig is WHEN scratches come, it is easy to touch up and not feel bad about a damaged paint job.

dougbert

PS I did learn to wear long sleeve shirt with the sprayer and rolling. Last night I got lots of dots of brown paint on the arms. Today was good with the long sleeves. Used LOTS of gloves too.