i used to be a dirt biker...does that make me evil incarnate?
you ARE an evil incarnate, but that's not the reason
Do others speak out on land issues or not?
- Thread starter MichiganChapter?
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you ARE an evil incarnate, but that's not the reason
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well played sir, well played. (insert standing ovation here)
2ndGenToyotaFan
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Train wreck indeed. I wonder if he made the meeting??? 
I think he wants these groups to do what he wants them to do....... and call him everyday to tell him that they are doing it.....? Or something like that.
I think he wants these groups to do what he wants them to do....... and call him everyday to tell him that they are doing it.....? Or something like that.
2ndGenToyotaFan
Moderator
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Anyone else notice that even the title of this thread is condescending?
No, no one else speaks out about land issues, just you.
Goodnight.
No, no one else speaks out about land issues, just you.
Goodnight.
- Thread starter
- #105
From the NOHVCC site:
The Agency Workshop objectives are:
#6
11-06-2006, 12:11 PM
Yoo
vbmenu_register("postmenu_30649", true);
ATV Offroad Guest
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontonagon, Michigan
Good meeting!
I attended all *4 days*. It was a very informative meeting and I learned a lot! I highly recommend that when one of these workshops comes to your area that you attend.
Only thing that I did not like about the meeting is the chance for Organization people to have time set aside for them *to talk with each other.*
Skip (Yoo)
President Mi-TRALE
The Agency Workshop objectives are:
- To develop a better understanding of the needs and concerns of OHV enthusiasts and other stakeholders in implementation of the USFS Travel Management Rule
- To improve the quality and the sustainability of trails, trail systems and areas through the implementation process
- To improve OHV enthusiast and other stakeholder input and support for the implementation process
- To increase partnerships between the USFS, the OHV industry, OHV enthusiasts and other stakeholders
- To facilitate better communication between the USFS, OHV enthusiasts and other stakeholders
#6
Yoo
ATV Offroad Guest
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontonagon, Michigan
I attended all *4 days*. It was a very informative meeting and I learned a lot! I highly recommend that when one of these workshops comes to your area that you attend.
Only thing that I did not like about the meeting is the chance for Organization people to have time set aside for them *to talk with each other.*
Skip (Yoo)
President Mi-TRALE
I assume the *insert bold text here* is your way of saying the worksops failed in these areas according to Skip Schultz of MI-TRALE?
That is good and verifiable information and I will ask Skip if he is being represented properly by you here. If it is true, I'm quite sure Skip would have either brought it up at the meeting or added it to his comment sheet on the workshop. We'll hear about it at the next planning meeting.
Of course, had you actually shown up for what you signed up for, you would have been at the meeting and you could have given a first hand accounting yourself. But you didn't so you can't.
I have actually been to the meetings, in fact, helped to write some of the modules they present. What is shared and promoted is very valuable to the Agency folks and to the enthusiasts. The workshop also includes lots of good information on how we can work with the agency and how the agency can work with you.
Right now, there is not a specific time set aside in these particular workshops to sit and talk with each other. Of course, that isn't the point. However, there is plenty of break time and free lunches in which opportunities need to be taken to get to know the other participants... agency and enthusiasts.
Dude, if you put just half the negative energy you have poured into your efforts here into something positive for OHV recreation, it would amaze you at what you might actuallly be able to get done.
Then again, real effectiveness would require you to stop the "at the ready" personal attacks on the good folks who are trying to get something done that flow so freely from you.
Greg
That is good and verifiable information and I will ask Skip if he is being represented properly by you here. If it is true, I'm quite sure Skip would have either brought it up at the meeting or added it to his comment sheet on the workshop. We'll hear about it at the next planning meeting.
Of course, had you actually shown up for what you signed up for, you would have been at the meeting and you could have given a first hand accounting yourself. But you didn't so you can't.
I have actually been to the meetings, in fact, helped to write some of the modules they present. What is shared and promoted is very valuable to the Agency folks and to the enthusiasts. The workshop also includes lots of good information on how we can work with the agency and how the agency can work with you.
Right now, there is not a specific time set aside in these particular workshops to sit and talk with each other. Of course, that isn't the point. However, there is plenty of break time and free lunches in which opportunities need to be taken to get to know the other participants... agency and enthusiasts.
Dude, if you put just half the negative energy you have poured into your efforts here into something positive for OHV recreation, it would amaze you at what you might actuallly be able to get done.
Then again, real effectiveness would require you to stop the "at the ready" personal attacks on the good folks who are trying to get something done that flow so freely from you.
Greg
What is more, I know a lot of these folks you attack, they are good folks and were they to see you making a sincere effort, they would come around to help you in your efforts.
Instead of going on the attack with, "You guys are the scum of the earth and screwing the rest of us... blah, blah, blah."
Try, "How can we work together to improve the trail situation for the rest of us... blah, blah, blah?"
Instead of, "I demand you hire a stenographer and get me the notes by... yada, yada, yada."
Try, "What can I do to help facilitate a more efficient way of keeping and publishing them quicker... yada, yada, yada."
A simple change in tack is most often all it takes to be more effective in your quests.
Greg
Why don't you look up your state orginizations and see what they can do for you on local trail issues, There are a number of groups here in Montana they have mailing lists and blog type forums you can find some one to align with, if you don't like or can't work with on go find another, the rest of this gives me a headache. Larry
- Thread starter
- #109
Glenn F. Moll (Glenn has been a board member since 2002)
Representing: ORV Users
Term Expires: 12/31/2006
Dick Ranney (Dick has been a board member and chair since 2002; his previous term expired 12/31/*05*
Representing: ORV Users
Term Expires: 12/31/2006
woooody
el Jefe
god -- I thought you had given up. Seriously, thought you had been beaten into submission, realized that you were barkin up the wrong tree - something.
But NOOOOOO -- 3 months later, you're back.
So what's your point? Their term expired, and they were re-elected. So what? Did anyone else run against them?
Are you implying that there is some sort of term limit? Doesn't say that. Just says that the term is one year. They can have 2, 5 or 10 terms in a row.
But NOOOOOO -- 3 months later, you're back.
So what's your point? Their term expired, and they were re-elected. So what? Did anyone else run against them?
Are you implying that there is some sort of term limit? Doesn't say that. Just says that the term is one year. They can have 2, 5 or 10 terms in a row.
- Thread starter
- #111
From the Michigan DNR website:
Glenn F. Moll
Representing: ORV Users
Term Expires: 12/31/2006
Dick Ranney
Representing: ORV Users
Term Expires: 12/31/2006
(Michigan Chapter):
Note: The chairman above is now working on his 2nd expired term.
There was no announcement from the state or anyone else last year (his first term expired 12/31/05) and no announcement obviously this year as to just when the Michigan orv community will be allowed to even 'apply' for these representative positions.
Add the fact that this guy has formed a "22,000 member" representative council which has continued to remain anonymous for literally years now through continual pressure for its members to simply 'reveal' themselves....and you get the picture as to how these guys operate right on up to and including the national level.
Last edited:
woooody
el Jefe
Oh, By the way, Are you going to attend the next meeting?
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/February2007Agenda_184072_7.pdf
Holiday Inn Lansing-West
7501 West Saginaw Highway
Lansing, Michigan
February 7, 2007
First item under new business:
New Business
A. Annual Election of Officers
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/February2007Agenda_184072_7.pdf
Holiday Inn Lansing-West
7501 West Saginaw Highway
Lansing, Michigan
February 7, 2007
First item under new business:
New Business
A. Annual Election of Officers
woooody
el Jefe
Did you check the Feb 2006 Minutes?
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/February2006Agenda_148981_7.pdf
Chair and Vice chair were elected Feb 8th, 2006.
Wanna change that? Then run. Put up or shut up.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/February2006Agenda_148981_7.pdf
Chair and Vice chair were elected Feb 8th, 2006.
Wanna change that? Then run. Put up or shut up.
WOW and i thought my paragraphs was s***
. Ya know for the first hundred posts i thought this guy was a treehugger here to stirr s***. NOW i know this is not the case. Are you a meth user perhaps
or just a 
We all speak english here give it a shot IT WORKS.may I suggest you align yourself WITH THE N.S.S they know alot of folks
and thats not a wisecrack. Goggle it. Then go caving while leaving nothing but footfrints
. Ya know for the first hundred posts i thought this guy was a treehugger here to stirr s***. NOW i know this is not the case. Are you a meth user perhaps or just a We all speak english here give it a shot IT WORKS.may I suggest you align yourself WITH THE N.S.S they know alot of folks and thats not a wisecrack. Goggle it. Then go caving while leaving nothing but footfrints- Thread starter
- #115
(quote=woooody):
]"So what's your point? Their term expired, and they were re-elected. So what? Did anyone else run against them?..."
Terms are for chairman and vice-chairman within the board structure.
Board members who represent the orv community are hand-picked by the state and installed for multi-year terms that end with new applicants (suppposedly) being publicly sought.
"....Are you implying that there is some sort of term limit? Doesn't say that. Just says that the term is one year. They can have 2, 5 or 10 terms in a row....."
The state used to post a chart which simply explained to us out here in the peon public when these multi-year representative terms began and ended. After these deadlines and term(s) were extended not once but twice in regards to their hand-picked chairman.....the charts inexplainably 'disappeared' from the website without explanation (as did the term extensions).
Here is another comparison as to how Greg's 'buddies' make their public contact info availiable to us out here in the peon general public
another simple request that our snowmobilers obviously have no problem with; yet one which has been arrogantly ignored for literally years by the 'good people' our national orv leaders refer to):
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Snowmobile Advisory Committee Members[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]James W. Duke
Region I, Michigan Snowmobile Association Representative
2 year term expires 12/31/2008
N7719 Ridge Road
Munsing, MI 49862
906-387-3941
FAX 906-387-3954
e-mail: jimduke@up.net
William Lucas
Region II, Michigan Snowmobile Association Representative
2 year term expires 12/31/2007
6218 Avon Lane
Cadillac, MI 49601
231-775-4344
e-mail: bjluc@prodigy.net
William Manson, Jr. - Chair
Region III, Michigan Snowmobile Association Representative
2 year term expires 12/31/2007
4336 Plainfield Ave., NE
Grand Rapids, MI 49525-1672
616-301-2743
FAX 616-363-0661
e-mail: billmsa@aol.com
Lee Murray
At-Large Representative
2 year term expires 12/31/2008
PO Box 267
3150 Jefferson
Hopkins, MI 49328
269-793-7183
FAX 269-793-4022
e-mail: lee@sebrightproducts.com
Jack Nelson
Nelson's Speed Shop
Business Community Representative
2 year term expires 12/31/2007
4566 North Greenville Road
Greenville, MI 48838
616-754-9185
FAX 616-754-5780
e-mail: nelson@pathwaynet.com
Orville Olson
At-Large Representative
2 year term expires 12/31/2008
2133 N. Sherman
Ludington, MI 49431-9597
231-590-0147
or 231-843-2905
FAX 231-843-2905
e-mail: orvolson@charter.net
David L. Thomas
Trail Sponsors
2 year term expires 12/31/2007
311 West Main Street
Marquette, MI 49855
906-249-5488
e-mail: DLThomas@chartermi.net
[/SIZE][/FONT]
Meet the ORV Advisory Board:
Board members may be contacted through the staff assistant Steve Kubisiak @ 517-373-1665 or email kubisias@michigan.gov
So what would be your next excuse for these guys there, Woody.....hmmmm?
Maybe something about how Greg and his national organization (or yours) is 'all for' simple procedural protocol.....in every state but Michigan?
Tell me something, my friend....what kind of questions woul YOU be asking on this forum if the above was supported nationally in YOUR area and YOU were called every name in the book for (god forbid) even so much as daring to question it?
How about if I cancelled your quarterly TLCA meeting for 6 months....and then didn't bother to release any minutes of the last meeting held for 8 weeks after that? (until you were forced to call and demand that they finally be published?).
Flame away or boot me off this thing, my friend; as you obviously are of the opinion that these guys do no wrong
......right on up to (and including) the national level.
]"So what's your point? Their term expired, and they were re-elected. So what? Did anyone else run against them?..."
Terms are for chairman and vice-chairman within the board structure.
Board members who represent the orv community are hand-picked by the state and installed for multi-year terms that end with new applicants (suppposedly) being publicly sought.
"....Are you implying that there is some sort of term limit? Doesn't say that. Just says that the term is one year. They can have 2, 5 or 10 terms in a row....."
The state used to post a chart which simply explained to us out here in the peon public when these multi-year representative terms began and ended. After these deadlines and term(s) were extended not once but twice in regards to their hand-picked chairman.....the charts inexplainably 'disappeared' from the website without explanation (as did the term extensions).
Here is another comparison as to how Greg's 'buddies' make their public contact info availiable to us out here in the peon general public
another simple request that our snowmobilers obviously have no problem with; yet one which has been arrogantly ignored for literally years by the 'good people' our national orv leaders refer to):[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Snowmobile Advisory Committee Members[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]James W. Duke
Region I, Michigan Snowmobile Association Representative
2 year term expires 12/31/2008
N7719 Ridge Road
Munsing, MI 49862
906-387-3941
FAX 906-387-3954
e-mail: jimduke@up.net
William Lucas
Region II, Michigan Snowmobile Association Representative
2 year term expires 12/31/2007
6218 Avon Lane
Cadillac, MI 49601
231-775-4344
e-mail: bjluc@prodigy.net
William Manson, Jr. - Chair
Region III, Michigan Snowmobile Association Representative
2 year term expires 12/31/2007
4336 Plainfield Ave., NE
Grand Rapids, MI 49525-1672
616-301-2743
FAX 616-363-0661
e-mail: billmsa@aol.com
Lee Murray
At-Large Representative
2 year term expires 12/31/2008
PO Box 267
3150 Jefferson
Hopkins, MI 49328
269-793-7183
FAX 269-793-4022
e-mail: lee@sebrightproducts.com
Jack Nelson
Nelson's Speed Shop
Business Community Representative
2 year term expires 12/31/2007
4566 North Greenville Road
Greenville, MI 48838
616-754-9185
FAX 616-754-5780
e-mail: nelson@pathwaynet.com
Orville Olson
At-Large Representative
2 year term expires 12/31/2008
2133 N. Sherman
Ludington, MI 49431-9597
231-590-0147
or 231-843-2905
FAX 231-843-2905
e-mail: orvolson@charter.net
David L. Thomas
Trail Sponsors
2 year term expires 12/31/2007
311 West Main Street
Marquette, MI 49855
906-249-5488
e-mail: DLThomas@chartermi.net
[/SIZE][/FONT]
Meet the ORV Advisory Board:
Board members may be contacted through the staff assistant Steve Kubisiak @ 517-373-1665 or email kubisias@michigan.gov
So what would be your next excuse for these guys there, Woody.....hmmmm?
Maybe something about how Greg and his national organization (or yours) is 'all for' simple procedural protocol.....in every state but Michigan?
Tell me something, my friend....what kind of questions woul YOU be asking on this forum if the above was supported nationally in YOUR area and YOU were called every name in the book for (god forbid) even so much as daring to question it?
How about if I cancelled your quarterly TLCA meeting for 6 months....and then didn't bother to release any minutes of the last meeting held for 8 weeks after that? (until you were forced to call and demand that they finally be published?).
Flame away or boot me off this thing, my friend; as you obviously are of the opinion that these guys do no wrong
......right on up to (and including) the national level.
Last edited:
woooody
el Jefe
I don't know what you want from us.
I'll ask it again.
Oh, By the way, Are you going to attend the next meeting?
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dn...a_184072_7.pdf
Holiday Inn Lansing-West
7501 West Saginaw Highway
Lansing, Michigan
February 7, 2007
First item under new business:
New Business
A. Annual Election of Officers
I'll ask it again.
Oh, By the way, Are you going to attend the next meeting?
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dn...a_184072_7.pdf
Holiday Inn Lansing-West
7501 West Saginaw Highway
Lansing, Michigan
February 7, 2007
First item under new business:
New Business
A. Annual Election of Officers
(quote=woooody):
Tell me something, my friend....what kind of questions woul YOU be asking on this forum if the above was supported nationally in YOUR area and YOU were called every name in the book for (god forbid) even so much as daring to question it?
How about if I cancelled your quarterly TLCA meeting for 6 months....and then didn't bother to release any minutes of the last meeting held for 8 weeks after that? (until you were forced to call and demand that they finally be published?).
Flame away or boot me off this thing, my friend; as you obviously are of the opinion that these guys do no wrong
MichiganChapter,
You need to go away....and I'm being nice about this.
We're not going to flame you... we are simply going to ignore you till you can offer this club, TLCA, something other than your useless rhetoric.
You are not going to use the TLCA as a lightning rod for you "issues" and expect us to care. We are all volunteers here, and feel Greg is doing a great job with the resources he has...and as you know..clubs, volunteers, etc. are political..its their inherent nature. Get over it or get out of it. Plain and simple..
Right now..until you can quit belching your crap all over this board..you are part of the problem and not part of the solution.
- Thread starter
- #118
Nice try on the re-direct
...yet these multi-year representative board terms weren't ever "annual" to begin with and are supposed to be publicly applied for long before these terms expired.(again, the chair is working on his 2nd unannounced/expired term...and not his first).
Not This s*** Again
- Thread starter
- #120
No problem.
Simply take one last look at the leader our national guys defend on page 4 here before this meeting's adjournment....and I'm gone. http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/November2006DraftMinutes_179305_7.pdf
