Computer shift read out conflict. (1 Viewer)

[Chalky]

Hi all

I have a conundrum.
I have a series 100 1999 V8 4.7L - (2UZ-FE) AUTOMATIC

The computer diagnosis shows the shift position as in 2nd (when shift stick is in P - park position) as 4th (when shift stick is in R- Reverse position) 2nd (when shift stick is in N - Neutral position) and no registration (when the shift is in 2 or L).

Now when you move the shift stick the independent gear read out on the computer show that they are correctly selected.

So effectively on the same page of the computer read out there is a conflict between the shift reading and the gear reading.

The dash board consul instrument lights show the gear in the same position as the Shift stick and confirm the position.

The electrician suspects a crossed wire or wires as there have been some very harsh re-wirings since there was flood damage. I cannot get my head around it as the computer clearly knows what gear is being selected and the instrument consul confirms but the computer also displays the shift being in another unrelated position.

Now from what I can see on the wiring diagram the ECU takes/gives inputs in plug C and has inputs from the shift position switch on plug D. All pinouts ECU colours match the EWD colours. The colours change at some point to the common blue and the EWD also shows a link between the plug D wires and Consul position lights and the gearbox selector position. So I suppose there could be a crossed set of wires that run to the selector switch.

Have any of you had this experience where the computer has a read out conflict?
Is there any possibility that the shift position switch on the gearbox could be at fault and is sending the wrong shift position to the computer despite the computer knowing what gear is actually selected?

I have ordered an EWD for my LC but I am trying to muddle through waiting for its delivery.

regards Chalky

 

[DirtDawg]

Honestly it sounds like you just need to adjust your shift linkage to the transmission under the vehicle. There is an adjustment slot and if it is off enough or if it is somehow damaged it can completely change the range of your shifter. I would look there first.

 

[Chalky]

Brilliant DirtDawg I will check it.
Is there an alignment procedure or a trick I should know?

ta Chalky

 

[DirtDawg]

Brilliant DirtDawg I will check it.
Is there an alignment procedure or a trick I should know?

ta Chalky

Just adjust, check, adjust, check. Back when I installed a body lift on my 4Runner I had this issue, I couldn't put the shifter into park to remove the key because the linkage was off. Our cruisers use the same kind of linkage, well at least the early models AFAIK.

 

[Chalky]

Well DirtDawg and others.

After a full check and replacement (second-hand) shift position indicator (which was not needed) the plot thickens.
The alignment of the shift position stick, switch and instrument lighting is all good.
BUT still the shift position in the computer read out does no correlate with the actual real gear position and the gear indicators in the computer read out.

We have also traced pin by pin, wire by wire the actual lines and confirmed that there are no crossed wires and no inadvertent grounds or wrong positions. So there seems to be no mechanical or wiring harness reasons for this strange computer reading.

The guys are now questioning the ECU itself and are trying to source a stand-in set (ECU Immobiliser and key control) just to check.

UNLESS any of you seasoned LC guys have a better idea?

thanks for the idea DirtDawg it was worth a try but no nothing so simple I'm afraid.

regards Chalky

 

[DirtDawg]

The shifter on the console does not determine shifting. The gear position is all controlled through that connecting rod on the side of the transmission. Have you guys disconnected the rod and manually moved that shift arm to make sure it won't go through all the gears? It still sounds like something between the shifter and shift arm isn't lined up properly.

What do you mean its not displaying correctly in the computer read out? What computer?

FSM shows all this.

 

[DirtDawg]

Good point well made thanks. Sorry
I have 2 issues
1) computer reading/diagnostics conflict of reading.
2) really hard knock from gear change.

Now if it turns out to be the same issue then great but I was treating one as electrical and one as mechanical.

Sorry it is really bugging me and I am desperate to move forward.

For the sake of simplicity, lets agree they are related at this point. Can you remove the key when the vehicle is shifted to "park"?

 

[Chalky]

I get your point and yes we have checked the gear it's in and the shift position are aligned. I am going to recheck again as I keep coming back to the same conclusion but it was done when computer was giving the readout of the actual gear.
Cheers C

 

[DirtDawg]

This might help: http://www.moranbahweather.com/toyota/lc_trj12/rm/rm1151e/m_05_0937.pdf

Maybe an issue with the neutral safety switch?

 

[Sandroad]

I suspect the 2 problems are related and likely caused by the flood damage or re-wiring. Your mechanic may be on the right track with sourcing a known good ECU to see if that helps (assuming the mechanical shift linkage is ok per @DirtDawg). I of course hope the transmission was completely and carefully flushed with new fluid because water intrusion can mess up the shifting something awful with hard shifts. If the hardwiring has been confirmed as correct and the wiring plugs are good, you're probably looking at ECU damage in the flood. Do you have access to the diagnostic trouble codes from the transmission?

 

[Chalky]

ta

No reported faults from transmission and the transmission is a fully recon'd unit so was not in the flood itself.

ECU sent to Canada a Specialist company who checked and cleaned everything. Spoke to them and they said very unlikely to be ECU issue as all was good/fixed; but if I have an issue I can send back. So I'm not thinking it is ECU.

Do you know what the transmission relay actually does (i know what it should do) , could that be at fault? The wiring diagram does not mention that unit but I have one. It sits on Right hand side behind glove box top right. Strange that it is not part of the control side. I think it is linked to the solenoids so may have a crucial role and might report back to the ECU. If this was in some way connected it might be a place of possible problem??

regards C

 

[Chalky]

Ok still not happy that the guys understand what I am trying to prove with the alignment between the mechanical shift arm and the shift sensor position on the automatic transmission. They keep saying that all is aligned and unless I get under the car while using their computer diagnostics computer I have to accept it for now. But i will ask a friend to come and help read their computer while I make adjustments underneath. They will not like it but it is my car. Later today I hope.

So that you can see the issue I have attached pictures (and PDF file) of the diagnostic readouts in the various positions.

This shows the computers reported shift position and the actual position of the shift stick.
View attachment 1407223
i have a quick video of the shift hard knocking as you move between Reverse and drive. I tried to upload short video without success, you can hear the knock and see it in the video.


Any ideas???

 

[Chalky]

DirtDawg and others

I took DirtDawgs advice and fully checked the Shiftstick and Shift position indicator. Realigned the and retightened all nuts. So now all certainly doing what it should.

Computer still has the same issue 2nd/4th/2nd/1st/1st/1st computer shift readings when in P/Rev/N/D/2/L respectfully.

also hard knock when changing from Rev to D and visa versa is still very evident. Maybe Transfer box/central diff???????

 

[Chalky]

Ok I think I have the infamous Thud or Cluck or Thunk.

see post https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/the-official-clunk-thunk-driveshaft-thread.

Now having to bite the bullet and try to grease every nipple/zerk in sight.

I will let you know.
Regards Chalky

 

[DirtDawg]

Ok so I want to clarify some things. What symptoms are you experiencing? Vanilla answer, not what the computer or techs are telling you.

 

[Chalky]

Ok
I was getting the now known clunk/thud on changing gears.

Had the transmission looked at and they said nothing wrong and sent to electronic guy for computer analysis.
Computer Analysis said the shift reading was saying one thing and the actual position and solenoids another. The solenoids and shift arm and instrument cluster were all good. On the shift position was saying something different. Park = 2, Reverse =4 and Neutral 2. D =1, 2 = 1 and L= 1.

Did pin to pin checking of all wiring and nothing was wrong, all colours from transmission position indicator to ECU and instrument cluster were good and Ohmn readouts of solenoids were good.

Did the physical alignment of the shift position switch and shift arm (as per your advice) and made sure all good.

Took the car yesterday to the axel people. On the way experienced only 2nd gear. No changing at all. Carried on with other repairs to front drive shafts and ball-joint gators, checked wheel bearings and had the two rear axel U-joints replaced. I cleaned up the split joint in the rear axel and packed with grease as per the IH8MUD advice on the Clunk/thunk pages. Greased all front and UJs and as much as I could the front axel split joint.
The clunk/thunk issue was definitely much less and i have the front axel UJs to swap out at some point but they seemed good.

Drove the car back (2nd gear only) to the electrician for more diagnosis on the reason of 2nd gear only problem. Computer analysis (both static and dynamic) and it says there is no Issue.

Now I am planning to drop the pan of transmission box on Saturday and test one by one each solenoid and their individual connections to the wiring harness.

So I am on the way to solving the cluck/thunk issue GREASE GREASE AND MORE GREASE plus some new UJs for good measure.
I was not having the 2nd gear issue so cant help thinking that this has been caused by opening the transmission or some loose/broken connection during the electrical diagnosis. But to check everything I will start at the Solenoid.
I will also recheck the shift position indicator but all is good.

What do you think??

Regards D

 

[DirtDawg]

Ok
I was getting the now known clunk/thud on changing gears.

Had the transmission looked at and they said nothing wrong and sent to electronic guy for computer analysis.
Computer Analysis said the shift reading was saying one thing and the actual position and solenoids another. The solenoids and shift arm and instrument cluster were all good. On the shift position was saying something different. Park = 2, Reverse =4 and Neutral 2. D =1, 2 = 1 and L= 1.

Did pin to pin checking of all wiring and nothing was wrong, all colours from transmission position indicator to ECU and instrument cluster were good and Ohmn readouts of solenoids were good.

Did the physical alignment of the shift position switch and shift arm (as per your advice) and made sure all good.

Took the car yesterday to the axel people. On the way experienced only 2nd gear. No changing at all. Carried on with other repairs to front drive shafts and ball-joint gators, checked wheel bearings and had the two rear axel U-joints replaced. I cleaned up the split joint in the rear axel and packed with grease as per the IH8MUD advice on the Clunk/thunk pages. Greased all front and UJs and as much as I could the front axel split joint.
The clunk/thunk issue was definitely much less and i have the front axel UJs to swap out at some point but they seemed good.

Drove the car back (2nd gear only) to the electrician for more diagnosis on the reason of 2nd gear only problem. Computer analysis (both static and dynamic) and it says there is no Issue.

Now I am planning to drop the pan of transmission box on Saturday and test one by one each solenoid and their individual connections to the wiring harness.

So I am on the way to solving the cluck/thunk issue GREASE GREASE AND MORE GREASE plus some new UJs for good measure.
I was not having the 2nd gear issue so cant help thinking that this has been caused by opening the transmission or some loose/broken connection during the electrical diagnosis. But to check everything I will start at the Solenoid.
I will also recheck the shift position indicator but all is good.

What do you think??

Regards D

If you were only experiencing the clunk when reversing gears, then I don't think your issue was related to the transmission at all (if it was shifting properly before). There are many things that can make a cruiser go clunk: slack between CVs and drive plates, worn front diff bushings, a sloppy drive shaft, etc.

And honestly the computer read out could just be incorrect. Ive had diagnostic equipment give me all sorts of false readings if the parameters are not set correctly and if the proper equipment is not used. But you now have me worried since you said that it wasnt having shifting issues when you brought it in, but now it only stays in 2nd. It sounds to me like the shop you are using might not be as knowledgeable as they need to be...

I know this is unlikely, but could you tell if the clunk was tranny related? As in you've felt some weird tranny issues lately, or felt any sort of slippage? Also it was mentioned above that this vehicle was flooded? If so, water could have gotten into all the driveshaft u joints and slip yoke, ruining any grease, causing a bad clunk.

Always approach the problems with baby steps, eliminating all the smaller and cheaper variables first.

 

[Chalky]

DirtDawg good points and well made. Noted thanks.

I have no choice now i need the truck back working so will update on the solenoid check later.

the clunk/thunk was not coming from one place but is much better now I have started the greasing I will complete this and let you know. I will also replace central box and rear axel oils.

the second gear I am hoping is becomes resolved as we attack the solenoid and recheck the electrics. can only be something stupid as it was working ok.

talk soon
Cheers Chalky

 

[Chalky]

Wow what a morning.

Lifted the LC. What did I see. Wiring harnesses hanging free. Bent oil level pipe and consequently a ill sliding Oil level dip stick. All breather hoses not attached and a gaping hole at the bell housing front where some sort of cover should be. (I will come back to this as I need to find a new/old cover).

So drained oil removed pan and first thing that greats me is again an ill fitting pipe (I cannot find it in any of the transmission breakdowns I have but it clearly handles pressure) so carefully straightened and fixed in properly. Could find no magnets in the pan???

removed solenoids and bench tested. Yes one small one is not working and I have ordered it.

Cleaned pan and mating surfaces and checked all wiring.

Repositioned all wiring after cleaning all pins and sockets and reinserted all. Made good all breather pipework.

Re attached the transmission earth wire also hanging free.

Found broken wire on rear axel lock indicator switch repaired but will check operation later today as well as inserting more grease to attack the Clunk/thunk issue.

More to come.

Chalky

 

[Chalky]

Hi all and DirtDawg

well lets start by explaining how I feel right now



Yes you guessed it but here's how it went.

Got the new solenoid and central lock switch. Fitted nicely. Re-ran all leads and connected all harnesses. Refitted pan with stand-in magnet. Fixed the "should not be bent that far" dipstick tube and reconnected all breather pipes with retaining clips. Looked great and smelled great with the silicon sealant for the pan.

Checked rear axel lock switch - hooray it was working so refitted and made good all cables and connectors so that they were nicely position and protected (not hanging free like they were).

Finally re-greased the axel slip joints until the grease oozed out of the dust covers. Great.

Dropped the car re-filled the transmission and connected battery. Proudly got in and turned switch all dash lights showing bright and no immobiliser flashing so turned to crank. NOTHING. Yes you got it Nothing!!!

so raised the truck checked all connections and starter connections (which I had not touched anyway).

Dropped the truck tried again. Nothing. so went in search of the bleeding obvious and found a dirty connections on the 30Amp starter fuze so cleaned and WD'd for good measure. Got in threw the key and YES there was life. It purred. I let it run to warm and move the transmission oil around. Gloating at my success.

Tried the central diff lock still nothing and the rear axel lock nothing there either but had not moved the truck to lock the gears so was not surprised. When I was cool with temp and oil took it for a spin.

Only Second Gear. nothing changed. new solenoid a still nothing different.

we put it on the computer and the fault it showed was P1745 - transmission temperature sensor.

I don't have one!!!!!

also cannot find this code in the code list.

So I am cooling off now and and would appreciate any ideas of where to start now.

I have a truck with a fault on a part I do not have and the truck is stuck in second when all was working before the idiots removed the gearbox and pan to check the transmission when looking to fix the Clunk/thunk issue; which turns out to be a doggy UJ and the application of grease, grease and more grease. By the way the Clunk/Thunk is still there but down to 5% of what it was. So there is some good news.

regards to you all
Chalky