Build Chronicles of Bonnie and Clyde

[greenbeast]

Classic Cruisers had triple groove, reasonably priced also at $370 shipped. Now working on key and outer seal. Trying to see if local dealer will work with me on this.

Key as mentioned is 90281-07004
Outer seal is 90311-45002

 

[bobm]

I am seeing that being an old guy these days, I have a ton of experiences that I can reflect on
This is so fitting! I would love to shove this up the collective a$$es$ of those GM engineers who said …” yep, this is great.. APPROVED” along with the guy that approved the heater core location in my 2001 Ford F-150 and the guy who designed the clutch assembly in my 1990 Harley Ultra Classic. This guy I actually met at the York, PA final assembly plant in 1990 who said to me with a proud smile on his face…” how do you like that new clutch , great isn’t it?”

Are you serious? You cannot get the bike in neutral at a red light.. it is horrible. “Oh, some of the bikes need a replacement push rod from the clutch cylinder.” Does anyone besides you know about this?? He walked away.
The F-150? That heater core is behind the passenger airbag. The repair warrants the complete removal of the dash..9 hours for a $29.00 replacement and a manual that warns you every 4th paragraph about accidentally detonating the air bags upon removal or installation.

At least it's not an AMF Harley . Or a Pontiac ro. Or changing battery in Chrysler's cab forward cars .

 

[riderjgs]

At least it's not an AMF Harley . Or a Pontiac ro. Or changing battery in Chrysler's cab forward cars .

Had a 5 spd manual Explorer mid 2000s that we gave to my daughter and family, Later needed a clutch at about 130k. No problem, right? Hundreds of thousands of Rangers (and presumably Explorers) with that drive train combo. Picked up a clutch kit from Autozone, brand name manufacturer. But nooooo. Turns out only the 5 spd Explorers ( limited run of about 1000 I was told) had a dual mass flywheel, NLA from Ford and anyone else. Finally found a Ma and Pa place in CA that made em at approximately 7x the cost of the Ranger kit. Bit the bullet but needed a throwout bearing they didn't supply. Also unique and NLA from Ford. Internet search found an obsolete parts aggregator also in CA that had the last seven in the world.
Thanks to some smart ass engineer that would never have to maintain his design, close to $1000 in parts alone instead of what would normally have been around $200. Sold the Exploder shortly thereafter. Saw in advertised in Vail several years later...as is. Needed a clutch.

 

[bobm]

Ma and Dad had an Exploder and it all of a sudden excellarated when my Mom was driving. Sold it and bought a Suburu against my protest. Dad closed them doors on that car like it was a 52 Chevy . Echo carried across the land

 

[kbahus]

Don’t forget the Loctite prep spray, it is a 2-part system. I can get the part number tomorrow as I still have it in the shop. A new balancer, key, and the Loctite black magic worked for me when I experienced the same issue. Reseal the timing cover now or forever hold your peace.

 

[greenbeast]

Don’t forget the Loctite prep spray, it is a 2-part system. I can get the part number tomorrow as I still have it in the shop. A new balancer, key, and the Loctite black magic worked for me when I experienced the same issue. Reseal the timing cover now or forever hold your peace.

You talking about resealing the entire timing gear cover or just the outer crankshaft seal? Outer crankshaft seal and key ordered today.

If stars line up I’ll put it together this weekend.

 

[greenbeast]

Don’t forget the Loctite prep spray, it is a 2-part system. I can get the part number tomorrow as I still have it in the shop. A new balancer, key, and the Loctite black magic worked for me when I experienced the same issue. Reseal the timing cover now or forever hold your peace.

New timing cover gasket ordered from Cruiser outfitters. Loctite 640 ordered along with the 46mm 1/2 impact socket. I'm ready to torque the hell out of it.

Ordering new belts and hoses also, might as well do it right since they are over 10 years old.

 

[kbahus]

Yeah I would do the whole cover. Here is the tech sheet, they mention two different activators. I will be home in a few and look to see which I used.

https://datasheets.tdx.henkel.com/LOCTITE-640-en_GL.pdf

Here is what I used:

 

[knuckle47]

Well, you’re using the opportunity to offset the chance of anything else behind it screwing up…. That’s a good plan too. Last thing you need is a simple repair and having to remove another problem part first that is not giving you trouble

 

[J Mack]

Loctite 640 ordered

they mention two different activators.

@greenbeast I mention Loctite 640 specifically because it has a slightly slower drying time giving you more time to get the pulley in place and the nut tight. If you use an activator you will dramatically reduce that time, it's not a problem but you should be aware you won't have any dilly dally time!
Give it a good 24hours before you put it back in service either way.

 

[kbahus]

I didn't even realize there was a 660 and a 640, good catch. I was going to offer to send that stuff to you but they have been sitting around for at least 12 years, maybe longer.

 

[greenbeast]

Bonnie update:
After drooling over Ornch and discussions with @Pigeaten we have decided to go with the automatic transmission Performance version of the 6L80 (new). Per Steve the performance upgrade is preferred for the LS3 conversion.

Lots of miles planned and with daughter possibly working in Jackson Hole this summer sounds like perfect opportunity to add another epic road trip to Bonnie’s resume.

Steve said cruise control much easier to pull off also. Kim admits she will likely be more apt to drive Bonnie some with the auto also. So sounds like the right things to do.

 

[J Mack]

Performance version of the 6L80

Why the 6l80 and not the more compact 4L60?
When we are talking stock or near stock (under 1000 HP) both can be built to handle that HP for similar money.

 

[greenbeast]

Why the 6l80 and not the more compact 4L60?
When we are talking stock or near stock (under 1000 HP) both can be built to handle that HP for similar money.

I can’t answer that only going with Steve’s recommendation. Maybe he will choose to explain sometime when he sees this.

 

[kbahus]

I had a built 4l60e back in the day, it survived launches with slicks and nitrous.

 

[greenbeast]

When talking with Steve he prefers the 6 speed with the LS3. Don confirmed how he enjoyed the 6L80 in Ornch. Seems more appropriate and better choice in my opinion to what Kim and I intend on doing with Bonnie and that’s road trip long distances.

 

[samc2447]

I prefer the 6l80 because we can get it brand new and the internals are upgraded already from the factory with the performance version. It is rated for 650 ft-lbs. where the stock 6l80 is rated for 440 ft-lbs.

A built 4l60 or other 4 series is perfectly fine. The 4 series is available as a remanufactured transmission. Nothing wrong with remans, but new motor, new trans and new transfercase in this instance to make it as trouble free as possible for Jon.

The 55 has the length to use the 6l80, and when you take the pan into account, the 4l60 is actually more of a problem for the front driveshaft. The difference in dimensions is not significant on the width or length. Yes, it's slightly bigger in diameter and the pan hangs down 1.36" more. Of course the nose cone gets replaced with the Marks or Advanced adapter.

So, visually below you can see the 4l60 isn't really that much more compact compared to a 6l80. When you take the nose cone off it's really only a few inches shorter.

 

[Lifelong40Fan]

And that’s why everyone wants Steve to build their rigs!

 

[J Mack]

I prefer the 6l80

Interesting, I was looking at one for a project (2 wheel drive car with air ride) and I was going to have to remove the entire floor to accommodate the over all height difference, I never really gave it much thought about distance from centerline until the Beast mention you used them!

How much are you making the tunnel bigger or are you hanging the engine and trans lower? Assuming you are using a 4 wheel drive version of the 2 wheel drive transmissions you pictured what's the length difference without the tail housing?
To keep the LS3 happy in it's 2200 +/- a couple hundred it looks like the 6L80 is about perfect for best fuel economy with the factory 4:10 gear and a 31" tire that most of these guys run. What are your thoughts about a 4:56 for those of us running 35" tires. It would have a good low crawl ratio and still be decent on the highway. For those that don't know the 6L80 has a lower first gear and a higher final gear that the 4L80 or 60
1st Gear 4.03, 2nd Gear 2.36, 3rd Gear 1.53, 4th Gear 1.15, 5th Gear 0.85, 6th Gear 0.67

 

[samc2447]

As always, good tech @J Mack. The tunnel usually isn't the issue, its the bellhousing interference at the firewall. This is true on manual swaps too. So position the engine as high as possible and leave enough room for clearance at the firewall. In an ideal world you'd get the engine higher and maybe slightly further back, but even with the aforementioned taken into account, there is enough clearance at the oil pan (with the muscle car pan) and the trans tunnel really doesn't interact. You will likely need to make changes to the tunnel for the shifter placement, but not necessarily for clearance of the transmission body itself.

Stock 4.10s with 33s work well. 4.56 for 35 is good too. If you don't want to go to the expense of regearing your diffs, add OD and/or UD gears to the splitcase since you've got to use one with the adapter (same for gears if you elect to go fulltime 4wd with an HF2A). The transmission should be the 2wd version since that's what the Marks/AA adapter is designed for.

The other thing that helps engine placement is using the Mosley radiator with electric fan. You're not worried about positioning the motor to allow proper clearances with a mechanical fan. The Spal fans used by FSR are high quality and keep a truck well within operating limits sitting in extreme heat idling with the AC on full. We've tested this and that's why I prefer Cam's radiator over a stock radiator and mechanical fan. Stock radiator does well until you put an AC condenser in front of it.