calling saginaw gurus (1 Viewer)

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i know there’s a lot of info in faqs and i’ve read and searched so forgive me if i missed the answer. i’m having some frame clearance issues i’m looking for some help with

i have 4x4labs steering kit and the saginaw mount plates. i bought an agr box they said the made for the fj40. variable speed turning or something like that. i bought it a while ago when i may have been more naive. anyway it has a 3/4 30 spline input. my kit has a 36 spine yoke. i also had it start binding on the frame crossmember as i was going to try putting it together (before i realized there was a different spline count)

is there a narrower yoke i need to source or am i looking at a short spud shaft to clear the crossmember. if that’s the case what’s the best u joint joke i could still use so i can use the hex shaft with the steering kit i have?

thanks for any insight

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reddingcruiser

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IMHO, the DD shaft is easier to use.

A spud shaft simply extends the input on the gear box.

AA has them for 1"DD. You can search other vendors for splined shafts.
 
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I have remedy for your u-joint problem, but can’t get info to you until I get home Tuesday. Also, if you got the 1,500 psi pump from agr, don’t use it, I will explain when I get back to a computer
 
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i’d have lots of room for the borgeson i think so wouldn’t need a spud shaft. i was just hoping to use the stuff i already have but guess i might just have to go that way.

@Downey please do give me your thoughts when you can
 
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Can you shape the end of your current shaft to accept the borgensen end and weld er up.
 

65swb45

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Can you shape the end of your current shaft to accept the borgensen end and weld er up.
The lower yoke has a hex hole and acts as the slip/telescoping end, so that would leave him with a Corvair-solid shaft John.
 
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oh, those ones, not applicable to this unless you wanna cut the frame away and reinforce where the ujoint hits it.
 
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Got home, then forgot to return to this thread. So evidently you just bought the Borgeson shaft & joints, so can't sell you mine. Now about the AGR, I see you have the AGR gear box, and they normally sell a 1500 psi box/pump kit. That is way too strong in off road terrain. When your tire comes up to a boulder that you didn't see, the box is so powerful that it bends your steering links (steering arms usually) since the boulder won't move, and 1500 psi won't let your tire move. You are better off using the stock 1,000 psi pump with the AGR gear box. Hopefully you got the 3.5 turn box, they have a much better gear ratio, especially in the 2nd stage of the dual stages, it gives you a better road feel (like Corvette) on the highway.
 
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I guess I would qualify as the Saginaw Steering Guru as I own Steerco, AGR Performance Steering. My company is the very last steering manufacturer actually manufacturing in the USA. I build and manufacture other stuff than Saginaw Steering Boxes, however my Saginaw count per day is 25-30 per day.

@franklin40 I too recommend the borgeson steering joints as some have recommended. Typically I recommend installing the joints and shaft for mock up before welding in to make sure they all clear. I have seen guys set the steering box further back in the crossmember to gain clearance, I have seen guys use the stub shaft to reach through the crossmemeber, and I have seen guys clearance the back of the crossemember to make thier joints clear. I have not seen any issues from any of these different set ups.

My first 4x4 was a 1978 FJ40 that I performed the Saginaw Steering Conversion 26 years ago using AGR Performance Steering at my first job working at Bohannan's Off Road Shop where we specialized in Toytoa Landcrusers. Since then I have owned 4) 40's, 1) 43, 2) 45's, 2) 60's, a 62, and an 80. All the 40 series' cruisers besides the 43 I have performed the Saginaw Steering Conversion always using the AGR steering gears and pumps even before I purchased the company. I even purchased a TON of parts from Downey!

Regards to Mr. @Downey 's info
For the Fj40's using a factory knuckle we have (before I purchased the company) and still do, will only sell a 4 turn lock to lock steering gear. This is also true for the private label steering gears AGR produced fro Downey. This is unique for the Cruiser Axle because the knuckle arms are so short compared to other 4x4 manufacturers. Because the knuckles are shorter it speeds up the steering, combined with a quicker ratio than a 4 turn lock to lock box the steering gets sketchy at highway speeds! The 4 turn lock to lock, not the 3.5 turn lock to lock is desirable.

Also as far as the info Mr. @Downey quoted about a 1500 psi pump being "way to strong for off road terrain" is wrong. With all due respect sir let me elaborate on the subject. Every single automotive steering pump is a vein design pump with a variable floating valve. A lot of people call this the pressure valve, when in fact it is the "Pressure Return Circuit Valve" meaning the valves job is to return full bleed off pressure and volume directly back to the sump when its not needed. When it is needed the valve moves allowing more volume and pressure to supply the piston in the steering gear giving it more power, (hydraulic capacity). A great example is when you are off road and are turning against a rock or up a ledge when MORE volume and MORE pressure is needed. As far as steering goes, or any other hydraulic power for that matter if you want to have more hydraulic power you can increase the size of piston in a cylinder or steering gear, the amount of volume and the amount of pressure from the pump.

Sometimes steering quickness, or stiffness is misjudged as "Road Feel". That is what is unique about my company, we build our own complainants including the directional valve inside the steering gear box. This valve has a torsion bar inside and that is where "Road Feel" comes from. Thicker the bar the more feel/effort it has, thinner the bar the less feel/effort it has. We build valves for handycap customers that have less than 30% strength in only one arm that need very very little effort and hardly any road feel, and we build valves for NASCAR that want 2 full hand grips on the wheel for their desired effort/road feel. Because the pressure return valve in the steering pump is reactive and only supplies its needed volume and pressure, the pump does not effect road feel in any way. Unless of course the original pump was dead to begin with.

Things that can effect road feel that have absolutely nothing to do with the steering gear, its valve or the pump are the width of tread, compound of tire, alignment including toe and caster especially on the spring over set ups, joint bind, and even tire pressure.

Mr. @Downey I thought you would get a kick out of some of the Private Labeled Downing Steering I found still on the shelf when I purchased AGR Performance Steering. Blast from the past huh!

JOSH

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65swb45

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Thank you so much Josh for joining our forum and putting all this direct from the horses mouth info into our tech forum. I hope you will stick around, or at least pop in from time to time.

P.S. I remember those end caps!
 
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Thanks guys. I have had another account for years but signed it over when I sold my off road shop right before I purchased AGR years ago.

I also have a FJ40 rolling chassis resto mod project with power train installed that I am doing an install video on shortly so if its not against any sponsorship rules, and is viewed as a tech contribution, I will post a link up when its done!

JOSH
 

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