Installing SS Braided Brake lines, Flare nut stuck in pipe! (1 Viewer)

[2001LC]

Ok this I've not seen this before. What appears to be a factory installed, brake hose from main pipe to differential pipe flare nut is stuck on female end.

While removing the two upper rear brake hoses, the flare nut of one hose was hard to turn, as if cross thread. But now that threads are fully or nearly exposed they don't look cross thread, at least not with to me.

But even now with threads all the way out it's hard to turn 90 degrees of a full 360 degrees, the other 270 degrees I can turn by hand.

But I just can't get the flare nut to release from the female hose end threaded fitting. I tried pulling on hose end while turning nut. I've tried pulling from both ends rocking back and forth while turning. Tried turning hose end while holding nut. Tried pulling while turning hard and at different angles. I just can't get it off after and hour or so of trying.

Anyone run across this?
Any ideas to get it off are welcome?
Anyone care to recommend a good tool to flare on a new nut?
Are OEM flare nut available.?

I need hose off to take to fabricator of brake lines, who's making me some SS braided lines tomorrow. So if I damage hose female end no big loss. But if I damage main pipe end, well that's a big deal I'm not sure how I'll deal with??????

HELP!

It appears threads aren't cross threaded.

This is another hose female end for reference.

This is another pipes male flare nut for reference.

This is the difficult one, it doesn't look like it has ever been touched.

 

[jerryb]

I always torch the female side, spray with blaster or wd 40 to cool it. let it soak, repeat.
IN the event it doesn't come off easy after one or two cycles I get it hotter to the point where the rubber will start melting and might fall out of the crimp, on fire sometimes.
I've never had to get the pipe cutter out for brake lines. I use the yellow bottles, MAPP, or a real torch.
My rears were exceptionally nasty to get off.

I wouldn't think you could roll the lip on those, but over torque could damage threads. I never inestigated to see if those were like a JIC or something else, so I'm not sure. I just replaced with new stock after brushing the male threads.

 

[white_lx]

You mention you tried twisting in the video. Did you try to 'unscrew' the flare from the female end?

If the flare got flared a little larger, you may be able to get it to start in the female threads and unscrew it. Pull apart firmly and try to unscrew. If it seems like it wants to go, I would add some oil to help with forming the thread.

 

[2001LC]

Yes I did try unscrewing form female end holding the flare nut. Tried pulling apart very hard, while turning female end holding flare nut. Did this because I'm thinking the tip of the nut must be expanded from over torquing. That the expanded portion, if pulled very hard while turn would, catch a thread. No luck.

 

[white_lx]

Yes I did try unscrewing form female end holding the flare nut.

Another thought:

1. Measure the brake line OD (ridgid line). Drill a hole of that size in a small piece of aluminum, brass (steel?). Split it in half using hacksaw.
2. Thread the nut back in.
3. Clamp the two halves from step 1 around the brake line with vise grips against the nut.
4. Unscrew the nut to lift the brake line out.

I guess you could skip step 1 if you had some good gripping pliers that would be able to sit against the nut without collapsing the brake line.

 

[2001LC]

I always torch the female side, spray with blaster or wd 40 to cool it. let it soak, repeat.
IN the event it doesn't come off easy after one or two cycles I get it hotter to the point where the rubber will start melting and might fall out of the crimp, on fire sometimes.
I've never had to get the pipe cutter out for brake lines. I use the yellow bottles, MAPP, or a real torch.
My rears were exceptionally nasty to get off.

I wouldn't think you could roll the lip on those, but over torque could damage threads. I never inestigated to see if those were like a JIC or something else, so I'm not sure. I just replaced with new stock after brushing the male threads.

To be clear, it's not frozen on. I've unthreaded the flare nut and can turn 270 degrees by hand. The other 90 degrees turn is more difficult, but I can turn it. Notice too in video, I move the flare nut in and out of female end just a tad.

Looking at the female side I don't think it will separate, at least not unthread. It appears to a solid one piece pressure crimped on hose.

I do think lip rolled. Only thing I can think happened at this point!

 

[2001LC]

Another thought:

1. Measure the brake line OD (ridgid line). Drill a hole of that size in a small piece of aluminum, brass (steel?). Split it in half using hacksaw.
2. Thread the nut back in.
3. Clamp the two halves from step 1 around the brake line with vise grips against the nut.
4. Unscrew the nut to lift the brake line out.

I guess you could skip step 1 if you had some good gripping pliers that would be able to sit against the nut without collapsing the brake line.

The flare nut move freely up and down along with twisting on brake pipe. See video!. It stays stationary as I turn either flare nut or female end, without hanging up.
My first thought was cross threading, nope doesn't seem to be.
My second thought was flared tip of pipe was deformed or enlarged hanging it up. Nope doesn't appear to be!

It seems as if lip of flare nut is smashed (rolled) creating and offset lip hang me up. But I can't get off, even pulling twisting turning. Notice all the tooling marks I've put on this virgin assemble.

 

[2001LC]

At this point I'll assume the flare nut is not salvageable.

I could just use a pipe cutter, but then I'd lose to much pipe cutting above flare nut. I need ever mm I can salvage. Looks like I'll be getting out the angle grinder.

I'll see if brake line shop I'm going to today, can fix me up with the proper flaring tool. One that matches the OEM pipes and the new SS brake braided lines he's making me. He may even have a metric flare nut, I hope.

Just to make sure job went smoothly, I hit with penetrating oil the night before. But they didn't need it, as wasn't even frozen on at all.

What a PITA from a factory install. Not seen this before!

 

[white_lx]

It seems as if lip of flare nut is smashed (rolled) creating and offset lip hang me up. But I can't get off, even pulling twisting turning. Notice all the tooling marks I've put on this virgin assemble.

Aha, see it now. Are you able to wedge a something like a ball joint seperator fork between the to parts to try to pry it off? Or maybe a slotted prybar or a larger trim removal tool that opens wide enough? You may need a few slotted fender washers on both sides of the fork.

I would not cut it off yet. How about two plates with slotted holes and two jack-screws on one of them?

 

[2001LC]

Interesting thought, "ball joint separator" would give stronger pull if I can secure.

I did grab top and bottom with channel locks pulling, twist with side to side action, but no go.

 

[white_lx]

One more idea, since you are replacing the flexible lines. Can you cut the female part just below the nut? Next screw the nut back in to expose the end. File the burr and then unscrew it.

 

[2001LC]

That a thought.

Interesting my Toyota Parts guy just told me they've seen this before. That they get calls for the whole pipe (front to back), they don't sell the flare nut. They think it's a manufacturing or assemble issue.

Here the plan:
See if machine shop has flare nut & tools. If I can't find new replacement nut, I'll go to salvage yard after I've tried to save one more time. Here goes more $$!
Once I've new nut and tools, I'll give one more try to pull off.
If that fails I'll cut off with angle grinder.
Then repair if possible or just replace whole line.

I didn't see this issue in mud searches. Did I miss it?

 

[nissanh]

Did you try locking pliers (not channel locking pliers) Use something branded like Irwin. Get this plier, this is my last option for a stuck nut/bolt. This never slips! 4" OAL Locking Jaw Locking Pliers 33011347 - MSC

How long is the metal pipe, regardless of the size you can make those metal lines. I haven't done so far but going to do those on an old Ford Cortina MK3. I bought the tool to make the flare and some tubes on ebay. Tool is like $20 and 25 feet roll of tube is $14. You can also get those unions and the bending tool.

When using a locking pliers, don't use too much force on the union nut (the one on the metal tube), it can get crushed.

The tube should be 4.7 mm in diameter.

Copper Nickel Steel 3/16 Brake Line Tubing Kit Armor With 16Pcs Gold Fittings 816860087156 | eBay

Double Flaring Brake Line Tool Kit Tubing Car Truck Tool with Mini Pipe Cutter A | eBay

Tubing Tube Bender Aluminum Copper and Steel 1/4" 5/16" 3/8" Fuel Brake Line 643845652708 | eBay

 

[2001LC]

Some good ideas, thanks.

No I've not tried vise grips, but that is my next plan of action. I've about 1/2 dozen different ones, but nothing like the one you've link me to.

You just gave a me a good idea. I'll just get a loaner flaring tool from parts store. I'll be stopping by Advanced Auto today on my parts run just before The Toyota Dealer parts.

I'm calling them now to see if they have one......... On hold he's looking....... They have and holding for me!

 

[2001LC]

Found out; new OEM brake pipe retails for $90.

 

[dace voit]

That pipe price isn't bad if it's pre-bent.

However, if you have to cut the nut off, then why not just cut further back and make your own stretch(much shorter) of hard line to the connection point of the SS hose? All it would take is some a flare tool and fittings, a pipe bender and a stretch of pipe. I know it will not be factory as you like to do(respect) but it will save you from having to replace the whole line.

 

[2001LC]

That is plan number one.
Back up is replace hard line.

I've lind up everything except flare nut. Head out door now to do just that as I pick up custom SS hose from WHISLER bearing & drives Hoseworks off I-70 & Monaco area.

I've not order hard line, and hope not too!

 

[toyotaspeed90]

It looks like you have a lot of line to bend down if you have to cut and reflare, I guess I don't understand the issue of just cutting it....

Since you're having a shop make a new SS line, just ask for the male end as well - then reflare with the new end on it.

Worst case scenario, have the SS line made longer, and just feed it through the bracket. It's common in the 'performance' world just to cut a slot on the bracket so the line can move in/out without having to disconnect the brake line and bleed - you can still use a clip (if you're using it that way) to hold it in place or you can use - gasp - zip ties - to hold the line in place.

 

[2001LC]

I'm shooting for using the bracket, so I'll cut as little as possible off pipe.

Had the new SS braided & coated hoses made while I waited, along the metric flare nut fitting came to $82. LH is 14" and RH (from bad pipe fitting) is 15 1/2"

Also stop by Advance Auto and pick up a rental flaring kit.

 

[2001LC]

Has anyone ever seen a TSB on this?

Speaking with Wholesale parts guy, he even knew which side to quote me.

This is a known Toyota issue!