- Thread starter
- #21
I am just going to rebuild or replace everything. My family's lives are too important
Brake issues... HELP please
- Thread starter Haven Ridge
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I would suggest replacing all the front stuff with 93-97 parts.
FZJ brakes are marginal at best.
Like you said your family is counting on them and your loading it heavy.
I would look into Powerstop, extreme, towing and off-road Brakes
That’s what I run.
FZJ brakes are marginal at best.
Like you said your family is counting on them and your loading it heavy.
I would look into Powerstop, extreme, towing and off-road Brakes
That’s what I run.
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- Thread starter
- #23
Roger that. Good input, thanks.
Already been said, IMHO everything shown in the rear brake photos above needs to be replaced if still available (shoes, drums, wheel cylinders, adjusters, etc,etc). Some small parts (springs, arms/brackets, pins) could possibly be reconditioned but you'd spend more time than it's worth cleaning/replating, etc, etc.
You're not a pain, man. This is an old forum with many years of old curmudgeonly posters who have heard and seen "everything." If they keep replying to everyone with caustic responses, there will be no new blood, and they'll only have each other to feed on.
ANYWAY.
I agree with the 93-97 replacement recommendations and the Powerstop Extremes. @Broski is spot on there. The best OEM LC brakes are marginal, so every bit helps. I run precisely that on my 94 with 35s, deleted ABS, and no LSPV.
BTW, @Broski, it's "BRAKES," not "BREAKS."
It only becomes the latter when you don't maintain them and you smash into things.
HahaBTW, @Broski, it's "BRAKES," not "BREAKS."
It only becomes the latter when you don't maintain them and you smash into things.
I think he knows what I meant.
- Thread starter
- #27
Yes I am getting all new stuff
Just yanking your chain, man. I agree with you 200%.
I have said this many times before, but I'll say it again.
Vehicle brakes are a system, not just a bunch of parts thrown together.
Every part of the system has to work together to prevent your 6000 lb bulldozer from turning the car in front of you into a bottle cap.
Master, booster, fluid, hard lines, soft lines, calipers, wheel cylinders, pads, rotors, shoes, drums, vacuum system are all in play here.
Making blanket statements like "80 Series brakes are marginal at best" is simply not true.
I run 35s with a 4" lift on my daily driver, and I can chirp tires on dry blacktop and activate ABS with 100% OEM 80 Series brake system.
My wife and I take fairly regular long road trips and I wheel it when I can.
Is it a sports sedan? No. It's a 6000 lb rhino, but the brakes work.
The difference is that I am anal about my brakes and maintenance in general.
I keep 2 full sets of OEM calipers. 1 set on the truck and 1 set completely rebuilt with all new OEM parts on the shelf. I don't change pads, I change calipers and bleed the system when it's time. Cost is not a concern for me, as brakes are not the place to pinch pennies.
It's way more important to stop than it is to go.
I think many folks forget how old these trucks are, simply because they were so overbuilt from Araco.
Regular systematic maintenance on a 27-33 year old vehicle is the key factor here.
Vehicle brakes are a system, not just a bunch of parts thrown together.
Every part of the system has to work together to prevent your 6000 lb bulldozer from turning the car in front of you into a bottle cap.
Master, booster, fluid, hard lines, soft lines, calipers, wheel cylinders, pads, rotors, shoes, drums, vacuum system are all in play here.
Making blanket statements like "80 Series brakes are marginal at best" is simply not true.
I run 35s with a 4" lift on my daily driver, and I can chirp tires on dry blacktop and activate ABS with 100% OEM 80 Series brake system.
My wife and I take fairly regular long road trips and I wheel it when I can.
Is it a sports sedan? No. It's a 6000 lb rhino, but the brakes work.
The difference is that I am anal about my brakes and maintenance in general.
I keep 2 full sets of OEM calipers. 1 set on the truck and 1 set completely rebuilt with all new OEM parts on the shelf. I don't change pads, I change calipers and bleed the system when it's time. Cost is not a concern for me, as brakes are not the place to pinch pennies.
It's way more important to stop than it is to go.
I think many folks forget how old these trucks are, simply because they were so overbuilt from Araco.
Regular systematic maintenance on a 27-33 year old vehicle is the key factor here.
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It is the very best place to come and ask questions.
And the best place to educate yourself.
Like many things, you get out what you put in.
You give only part of the picture, you'll only get partial answers.
No-one will judge you for lack of experience, but people get frustrated when newbs haven't dug and educated themselves.
Catch 22! As a newb, you don't know what you don't know, so it's hard to ask the right questions.
OK, I will reword it. FZJ Brakes do not work as well as modern Brakes.
I feel that my FZJ Brakes work good for what they are even with 39s do they work as well as my modern vehicles no way.
Also if you do decide to up grade to FZJ brakes from your FJ brakes beware that you 15" wheels will be to small.
I feel that my FZJ Brakes work good for what they are even with 39s do they work as well as my modern vehicles no way.
Also if you do decide to up grade to FZJ brakes from your FJ brakes beware that you 15" wheels will be to small.
BTW, @Broski, it's "BRAKES," not "BREAKS."
Apparently there's a few spelling nazis too . . .
LSVP
Load Sensing Proportioning Valve.
The arm that was left not connected adjusts the valve inside that controls flow of fluid to the rear brakes. It also affects fluid flow through the front brakes.
It's supposed to be a self adjusting valve. As you load cargo into the rear, it opens, and allows more brake pressure in the rear brakes.
When the rear is empty, you don't want full braking pressure, as the rear brakes can lock up. This happens while braking negotiating a bend, the rear of the vehicle can skid out. Not a great scenario with family in the car.
Without the bar connected, you have no way to know if the valve is fully open, fully closed, or somewhere in between.
It can be deleted, but if you don't know what you are deleting, it's far better to getting working as Toyota's team of engineers were paid millions to design it to work.
This is spot on.
I've never had an issue with brakes not being good enough in my cruisers. Sure, sometimes the need some love to stay as good as they can be.
But they work just fine, drive accordingly. You're driving a 30 year old, 2.5 tonne steel behemoth. It's not going to stop, or handle like a Corolla, ever!
I have an upgrade brake setup on my website. Part of that listing has a step by step evaluation procedure for checking your system. At times it takes two people. This will help you identify otherwise good looking parts that are total crap. Mainly the soft lines
I've removed both the LSPV and ABS and have wonderful consistent brakes.
@Haven Ridge ditch the LSPV. It simple does not function on a lifted truck. I would also go so far as to say don't just tie the rod up to the frame either. My LSPV was leaking and rotted on the inside. I removed the sense line from the front and installed a union. Pressure from the MC goes straight to the calipers. The EASIEST fix is to install a tee fighting where the LSPV is located.
Your truck doesn't have ABS so you don't have to worry about getting air in the ABS pump.
@Haven Ridge ditch the LSPV. It simple does not function on a lifted truck. I would also go so far as to say don't just tie the rod up to the frame either. My LSPV was leaking and rotted on the inside. I removed the sense line from the front and installed a union. Pressure from the MC goes straight to the calipers. The EASIEST fix is to install a tee fighting where the LSPV is located.
Your truck doesn't have ABS so you don't have to worry about getting air in the ABS pump.
Quick story: my stock 96 model has brakes that will stop the vehicle on a dime but the stock 97 model (newer to me) did not have as good braking.
So on the 97 model the front pads were replaced first, not that much improvement (front calipers had been replaced by the PO). So then replaced the original 27 year old rear brake calipers (pistons had been fully extended for some time), including new pads, new rotors, and all of the brake hoses in the rear including the axle line and two caliper hoses up front (everything OEM). Haven't gotten to the front axle hoses yet but they looked good. None of the original flexible brake lines/hoses were leaking or bulging but all had age cracking of the rubber outer layer.
Then performed complete flushing of the system using a Motive pressure bottle and a couple quarts of DOT 3-4 brake fluid. While the fluid was flowing out of each bleed screw my habit is to tap/flick the brake hoses to help dislodge any bubbles stuck inside, ditto for the new calipers and the LSPV. I tap/whack those with a rubber mallet for the same reason and would always get a few more air bubbles or even small particles of sediment/debris out after the tapping/whacking of the components (and working the LSPV rod up and down to move the valve inside a bit while bleeding that). I also allow fluid to flow through each new hose before buttoning them up to the calipers. IMO/IME bleeding with continuous pressure from the Motive bottle helped get all the air out of the system. Ideally I'd like to cycle the ABS pump but don't have the tool for that.
Point is after all that the 97 model now stops as well as my 96 model, very good, both vehicles have their original factory brake system with ABS and LSPV still intact.
FWIW.
So on the 97 model the front pads were replaced first, not that much improvement (front calipers had been replaced by the PO). So then replaced the original 27 year old rear brake calipers (pistons had been fully extended for some time), including new pads, new rotors, and all of the brake hoses in the rear including the axle line and two caliper hoses up front (everything OEM). Haven't gotten to the front axle hoses yet but they looked good. None of the original flexible brake lines/hoses were leaking or bulging but all had age cracking of the rubber outer layer.
Then performed complete flushing of the system using a Motive pressure bottle and a couple quarts of DOT 3-4 brake fluid. While the fluid was flowing out of each bleed screw my habit is to tap/flick the brake hoses to help dislodge any bubbles stuck inside, ditto for the new calipers and the LSPV. I tap/whack those with a rubber mallet for the same reason and would always get a few more air bubbles or even small particles of sediment/debris out after the tapping/whacking of the components (and working the LSPV rod up and down to move the valve inside a bit while bleeding that). I also allow fluid to flow through each new hose before buttoning them up to the calipers. IMO/IME bleeding with continuous pressure from the Motive bottle helped get all the air out of the system. Ideally I'd like to cycle the ABS pump but don't have the tool for that.
Point is after all that the 97 model now stops as well as my 96 model, very good, both vehicles have their original factory brake system with ABS and LSPV still intact.
FWIW.
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Unfortunately I don't believe it's feasible to upgrade the older 80 rear drum brakes to the discs found on newer ones.
That would be a nice upgrade.
My '97 LX450 brakes seem plenty adequate, in fact the best of any truck I've ever owned.
WAY better than the brakes found on my previous Cruisers.
That would be a nice upgrade.
My '97 LX450 brakes seem plenty adequate, in fact the best of any truck I've ever owned.
WAY better than the brakes found on my previous Cruisers.
You have to do an axle swap to get the FZJ brakes on a FJ then you also get the full float axles.
Very common swap and well worth it
Very common swap and well worth it
The majority of the hard parts for the rear brakes are not wear items and can just be cleaned, lubed and reused.
The only hard part that tends to wear out is the short cable with the end stops that runs from the bellcrank and goes under a small pivot.
47616-60010
Wheel cylinders can be rebuilt with OEM parts or replaced.
47550-60120 new OEM wheel cylinder (same for both sides)
04474-35100 OEM wheel cylinder rebuild kit
04495-60070 OEM rear brake shoe kit (does both sides/shoes are side specific)
If the bellcranks are seized, they can be removed, disassembled, cleaned, and lubed. Parts are still available.