BP-51 and upper control arms

[Eric Sarjeant]

I just bought a 2010 LC200. Got a set of RWs for $1000 and sending it out tomorrow to get BP-51 suspension and tires/wheels installed. While it's on the lift and the suspension is taken apart, should I get upper control arms replaced? This will be taken off-road, nothing extreme, but more than a street cruiser.
If so what brand/models do you guys recommend? I've heard it doesn't make a difference and I've heard they make alignment much easier... Any help appreciated!

 

[Markuson]

Definitely worth doing while it’s all apart.

Easier to align...especially if lift is higher at any point in time.

SPC UCAs work great and they stand behind their product (sent updated ball joint for free).

 

[TeCKis300]

On the flip side, the need for upper control arms is debatable. It's really dependant on the amount of lift that you want to run. Under 2" lift, one can still maintain good alignment numbers with the stock arms. 2" and over, may want to consider the UCAs.

Just FYI, upper control arms aren't exactly a set and forget mod. They tend to not be as durable from a longevity standpoint with many prematurely failing. They can also be a nuisance as the bushing they utilize tend to squeak or rub.

 

[fireball]

You should've bought a sweet black 2018 that is for sale, right in your area. Rock warrior rims, slee sliders, BP51s. Looked pretty cool!

 

[Eric Sarjeant]

Ha, yeah, my personal budget isn't as big as my clienteles.

 

[Ali M]

I only got the SPC UCA because I want to go 2.5" on my lift. I think for > 2" I would have kept my stock ones.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

What does the shop installing and/or selling you the BP-51 kit recommend? Certainly they'll be able to make a recommendation based on your tire size and lift height desired. One of the big reasons to do SPC's isn't just the adjustable caster/camber but the ability to cheap the entire wheel forward in the wheel well for clearance. If you're running a smaller tire and lower height, they are not mandatory.

 

[Markuson]

What does the shop installing and/or selling you the BP-51 kit recommend? Certainly they'll be able to make a recommendation based on your tire size and lift height desired. One of the big reasons to do SPC's isn't just the adjustable caster/camber but the ability to cheap the entire wheel forward in the wheel well for clearance. If you're running a smaller tire and lower height, they are not mandatory.

This.

I could not have fit my 35’s without moving them FORWARD during alignment.

If there’s a chance you’ll want more lift in the future or large tires? Do it now, or wish you did later.

 

[TeCKis300]

This.

I could not have fit my 35’s without moving them FORWARD during alignment.

If there’s a chance you’ll want more lift in the future or large tires? Do it now, or wish you did later.

Well, sorta.

@Apounder recently did 35s on his LX. Keeping stock upper arms as I understand it. Because the LX requires a bracket mount on the upper arm for the height sensor. Nothing a little welding can't solve but that's besides the point.

Cangaru Racing's "Monica" race truck uses stock upper arms with 37s.

Trick is to make clearance where the tire needs it. In this case, the aft end of the wheel well liner and body mount chop.

Making clearance via upper arms is a strategy. Personally, that's backwards to me. The wheel well should be clearanced where necessary. The suspension should have priority to utilize it's designed in optimal stroke. Only using adjusters to calibrate alignment. Which is distinct from using adjusters to make clearance, perhaps at the detriment to handling. Just my personal belief on this trade space. I value handling way more than most.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Well, sorta.

@Apounder recently did 35s on his LX. Keeping stock upper arms as I understand it. Because the LX requires a bracket mount on the upper arm for the height sensor. Nothing a little welding can't solve but that's besides the point.

Some define clearance different than others, I'd love to see 35's not rub anywhere without cutting or tweaking metal.

Cangaru Racing's "Monica" race truck uses stock upper arms with 37s.

Monica has a body lift, body mount chop, zero inner fenders, chopped outer fenders and and the control arms kicked forward a fair bit.

Only using adjusters to calibrate alignment. Which is distinct from using adjusters to make clearance, perhaps at the detriment to handling. Just my personal belief on this trade space. I value handling way more than most.

With the SPC, you can cheat the UCA/LCA forward, gaining needed room at the wheel well/body mount and mud flap all while landing the caster/camber in desired spec. No detriment to handling, drives fantastic. Same specs we use on the race car (Monica)

 

[TeCKis300]

^To be fair, you're running a 37 which is well beyond what most do here. So you need to throw everything at it.

At the same time, you're saying bringing things forward is race proven and works well. I can't deny that.

For a race vehicle, high maintenance ball joints and bushings is one thing. I've had plenty of that kind of "fun" in my sports cars. I personally won't put up with that kind of durability for a street vehicle.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

^To be fair, you're running a 37 which is well beyond what most do here. So you need to throw everything at it.

At the same time, you're saying bringing things forward is race proven and works well. I can't deny that.

For a race vehicle, high maintenance ball joints and bushings is one thing. I've had plenty of that kind of "fun" in my sports cars. I personally won't put up with that kind of durability for a street vehicle.

Are you considering the SPC's "high maintenance ball joints and bushings". I would disagree. The sealed & greasable UCA of the SPC has been proven extremely reliable. We've sold hundreds (thousands?) of arms and very very few replacement upper joints. Likewise on the frame side bushings. IMO they are less likely to tear and wear verses the bonded OE style. We can't run the SPC's in the Canguro race car per spec rules. We however wish we could as the stock bushings tear every 1k miles (or less), the ball joints get play (again every 1k or less) and the arm strength is inferior to aftermarket options, we've ripped the arms apart.

To be clear I wasn't stating we have the Canguro UCA/LCA kicked forward, we got the room we needed there with chopping. I was simply stating the camber/caster specs we use for both is the same, handles great under a 8k lb 200 on the highway at 90 mph or the race car on the highway at 117 mph

 

[TeCKis300]

SPC's are probably the best of the breed, but they surely still make more noise than stock. A search of these forums will show that. Hence they need to be greased. Many other brands having plenty of squeaking and durability issues. That's also because some of them are even harder core race style parts that use unsealed ball joints.

We'll agree to disagree here. I happen to believe bonded OE style bushings are best for a street car.

Ultimately, if one is lifting aggressively over 2", may need the UCA to correct caster/camber.

 

[mcgaskins]

SPC's are probably the best of the breed, but they surely still make more noise than stock. A search of these forums will show that. Hence they need to be greased. Many other brands having plenty of squeaking and durability issues. That's also because some of them are even harder core race style parts that use unsealed ball joints.

We'll agree to disagree here. I happen to believe bonded OE style bushings are best for a street car.

Ultimately, if one is lifting aggressively over 2", may need the UCA to correct caster/camber.

How many SPC UCAs have you run? Please stop spreading misinformation. They do not make more noise than stock. I’ve had 3 sets, and all have been silent. I know you and I disagree on a few topics which is totally fine, but it’s hilarious and probably unwise to disagree with someone like Kurt who is in the 1% of the top 1% of people who are knowledgeable and experienced with Land Cruisers, particularly the 200. Why would you want to disagree with someone who for a living jumps a 200 at over 100 mph, tears 200s completely down then rebuilds them, and sells thousands of 200 parts out of his shop including custom parts and kits that no one else in the US offers?! Seriously it’s bad form, so please do not clutter this thread with conjecture that is easily disproven by folks here with actual experience with these actual products.

 

[TonyP]

I would add SPCs. With BPs, assuming the shop set the preload correctly, you'll be at the edge of the recommended alignment specs.

As for 35s, as Kurt said, rubbing can be subjective. When/if he gets that LX twisted up, it'll rub. I promise. But if they aren't rubbing they aren't big enough, right

 

[TeCKis300]

How many SPC UCAs have you run? Please stop spreading misinformation. They do not make more noise than stock. I’ve had 3 sets, and all have been silent. I know you and I disagree on a few topics which is totally fine, but it’s hilarious and probably unwise to disagree with someone like Kurt who is in the 1% of the top 1% of people who are knowledgeable and experienced with Land Cruisers, particularly the 200. Why would you want to disagree with someone who for a living jumps a 200 at over 100 mph, tears 200s completely down then rebuilds them, and sells thousands of 200 parts out of his shop including custom parts and kits that no one else in the US offers?! Seriously it’s bad form, so please do not clutter this thread with conjecture that is easily disproven by folks here with actual experience with these actual products.

We're all grown adults here. No disrespect to Kurt, and I absolutely admire what those guys do. At the same time, I have my own professional experiences engineering things more complicated than control arms. Aftermarket parts are easy. OEM and military requirements go way beyond what enthusiasts will tolerate. Perhaps you think I've never considered UCA's. Or perhaps in my research, evidence of issues has driven me away as I have personally higher standards than most. Having a job that involves FMEA accountability will do that. If you believe my PSA is clutter, than so be it. Others may want to go in eyes wide open.

Fact - OEM arms have longer durability. That's almost always the case, but sometimes we need that aftermarket part.
Fact - Aftermarket arms have a service interval requirement, i.e. grease zerks
Fact - Reported cases of squeaking
Fact - Reported cases of premature failure
Fact - Multiple iterations using end users as beta testers. Hopefully the newest versions are as you personally experienced.

None of these are my words. This is just a search here in the 200-series forum. More in other model lines.

Just sharing my experience. I have SPC UCAs with the greaseable ball joint. Mine started squeaking last year after wheeling in Breckenridge. Not awful, just a little squeak I could notice if the radio was off and I went over a bump at low speed. I greased them and they stopped. Started happening again after Telluride. I greased them on Saturday but they're still squeaking, so it could be UCA or shock absorber bushings this time.

FWIW I have noticed some little squeaks when going over bumps at low speed with the radio off recently. Not sure if it's bushings in the shocks making noise or (more likely) in the aftermarket adjustable SPC UCAs. I bought some silicone spray lube though honestly I'm not sure how to apply it to the UCA bushings without loosening the bolts.

I have TC uppers for about 15k miles now and no squeaks, ever. I run the poly bushing though and not heim joints (heim take more maintenance). I do grease through the zerks every oil change. I like TC because they are a Toyota focussed brand, they build their arms perfectly to each application (from a dimensions perspective. No need to "adjust" either because they are already set for proper). Alignments are always on point. Put it this way, a couple of the other arms out there are basically "copies" of the TC UCAs from a dimensions perspective, heard this from a couple manufacturers, even one that sold his own (copy of the TC UCA). Copying is the biggest form of flattery!

SPCs have their issues too.

UCA
I have the SPC UCAs. I started with replacing the UCA bushings, I followed the install instructions when replacing them. This eliminated the creaking for the 200 foot roll out of the drive way. Next step was to replace the ball joints in the UCA. I replaced them with the version with a grease fitting. Ball Joints This also stopped the creaking for the roll out of the drive way.

Went to Big Bear and did Heart Break Ridge trail. The GO PRO video had a lot of squeaking, so I greased the TC UCA's the next day. Hopefully just the crunching of rocks and engine noise next time.

My SPC UCA's make some noise until I lube them up but not the Icons. Check your shock tower bolts and make sure those are tight - the ones on top of your coilovers. When I first installed these Icons those worked loose a bit. I think its smart to re-torque any bolt that was touched during the installations process. hope you figure it out so you can enjoy your purchase - its no fun driving down the road trying to listen for noises.

SPC's, had to replace the ball joint after about just over 40k rough miles! Nice thing is you can just replace them in your driveway with no special tools! Overall been super happy with the product and now I have the updated version that's greasable.

SPC are garbage with their history of catestrophic failures and need for multiple “revisions”. Bushing failures, joint failures, weld failures. All catastrophic at 80mph.

Spend the $200 more and get a Total Chaos. With proper installation, they’re silent, more robust, and frankly, trustworthy, than SPC.

TC UCAs on my armored 4 tn 2010. Have about 50k miles on them. About a month of squeaking but that was because i forgot to maintain them. Theyve been rock solid.

 

[Union]

Get the UCAs!

 

[Markuson]

We're all grown adults here. No disrespect to Kurt, and I absolutely admire what those guys do. At the same time, I have my own professional experiences engineering things more complicated than control arms. Aftermarket parts are easy. OEM and military requirements go way beyond what enthusiasts will tolerate. Perhaps you think I've never considered UCA's. Or perhaps in my research, evidence of issues has driven me away as I have personally higher standards than most. Having a job that involves FMEA accountability will do that. If you believe my PSA is clutter, than so be it. Others may want to go in eyes wide open.

Fact - OEM arms have longer durability. That's almost always the case, but sometimes we need that aftermarket part.
Fact - Aftermarket arms have a service interval requirement, i.e. grease zerks
Fact - Reported cases of squeaking
Fact - Reported cases of premature failure
Fact - Multiple iterations using end users as beta testers. Hopefully the newest versions are as you personally experienced.

None of these are my words. This is just a search here in the 200-series forum. More in other model lines.

“We are all adults here. No disrespect to...” you...but I wish I had a dollar for every time you tell us you’re an engineer...as some sort of basis for argumentation.

 

[A10Driver]

Really like my spc and bp51's. 10k with lots of off-road on washboard roads in az, and a 3k mile road trip through southern co. No issues with noise in the dust, rain, mud, or snow

 

[TeCKis300]

“We are all adults here. No disrespect to...” you...but I wish I had a dollar for every time you tell us you’re an engineer...as some sort of basis for argumentation.

Right. And I can pin you for an enthusiastic enthusiast. I think we can acknowledge we come from different perspectives. So I often need to echo that because of the enthusiast mob mentality here.

...It's an LX. AHC will break the moment you go off-road.