Battery & Solar Panel Question

[PabloCruise]

A while back we had a big conversation about adding lithium ion batteries for camping, but I think it was stuck w/in a thread...

I was at the local CostCo this weekend and they were having a promo on the following:

Need a Portable Power Generator? Lion Energy Has the Answer

The Lion Safari LT™ is a portable solar powered generator that provides safe, silent, and renewable power for your cooking, communication, entertainment, CPAP, work, and emergency needs. No fuel, smelly fumes, or maintenance needed. At 500W of multiple outputs and only 11 lbs, you can have power...

lionenergy.com

Plus this:

Lion Energy - Your Life. Your Power. Your Way.

Lion Energy

lionenergy.com

Both pieces at $589. It looked interesting to me.

Thoughts? My biggest interest in this would be a sep battery to keep the fridge nice and cold in a single battery Cruiser. The fridge moves between the Pig and the LX. I don't really want to do dual battery in either rig, so this might be a way accommodate.

 

[PabloCruise]

And yes, I know we have other sections in MUD to talk about this stuff, but I guess I would rather talk with you guys...

 

[Broski]

OK hears my take on it. Like you I don't want the weight or complexity of duel batteries But I run a ARB fridge so instead I installed a Odyssey extreme group31 with nearly twice the power and storage capacity of a single standard battery, it's like running two battery's.
The other issue I see is the solar panel well not be charging when your on the trail all day like you car battery is, when you get to camp the battery is fully charged. I have sat in camp with the fridge going for two full days with out issue and the truck still started with this battery.
I did pick up a portable solar charger to hook up to the battery if I am camped for more the a few day but have not used it yet.
Odyssey Battery ODX-AGM31M Odyssey Extreme Series Marine Batteries | Summit Racing - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ody-31m-pc2150st
The other thing I really like about this battery is the extra post it has, perfect for the winch leads.
The only way I see the power pack working is that you run the fridge off a power port in the truck during the day when driving, then when you get to camp switch to the power pack when in camp and hope it can keep up nite and day when you only get the solar power during the day. not sure if a 100amp panel will be enough .
450WH may not be enough to run the fridge all nite, I'm not a expert but I think the set up your looking at is more for lights, cell phone charging and simular small draw items.

 

[bobm]

A while back we had a big conversation about adding lithium ion batteries for camping, but I think it was stuck w/in a thread...

I was at the local CostCo this weekend and they were having a promo on the following:

Need a Portable Power Generator? Lion Energy Has the Answer

The Lion Safari LT™ is a portable solar powered generator that provides safe, silent, and renewable power for your cooking, communication, entertainment, CPAP, work, and emergency needs. No fuel, smelly fumes, or maintenance needed. At 500W of multiple outputs and only 11 lbs, you can have power...

lionenergy.com

Plus this:

Lion Energy - Your Life. Your Power. Your Way.

Lion Energy

lionenergy.com

Both pieces at $589. It looked interesting to me.

Thoughts? My biggest interest in this would be a sep battery to keep the fridge nice and cold in a single battery Cruiser. The fridge moves between the Pig and the LX. I don't really want to do dual battery in either rig, so this might be a way accommodate.

Thought it was @J Mack

 

[fj55tlc]

Sounds like a decent set up. I run 2 odyssey batteries with 2 100 watt solar panels and a 750 amp hour li-po for camping duty. I don't have a fridge yet, but I think this set will handle it.
I say go for it, you can always upgrade later if you need more capacity.

 

[bobm]

Where you been

 

[J Mack]

Thoughts?

Nice little unit @ 450Wh capacity at only 11 pounds but at $585.00 it is a little pricy for me for just a battery. That unit has an inverter and charger built in so if those are important to you then it’s not a bad price.

To make it easier to cut through the BS we’ll convert 450 WH to Ah and talk about Ah as usable power.

450 Wh = 37.50 Ah and they say that pack has a Lion battery so I would expect you to get all 37.50 Ah or very close to it.

The portable pack I built @ 27 pounds is 60 Ah and it has a LiFePo4 battery, again I would expect to get all 60 Ah.

We’ll use @Broski battery only because he posted it here and I just looked it up. The ODX-AGM31M ODYSSEY is a very good battery but I wouldn’t depend on that battery for long term camping power for something like a refrigerator. If you camp a couple times a year then yeah it’s good enough no need to upgrade to something else but if you are headed out every other weekend then upgrade to a Li battery.

The Odyssey is rated at 92 Ah and because of the chemistry you’ll derate that by half for your usable power so we’ll call it 46 Ah of usable power at 78 pounds, if you try to continually use that battery at 46 Ah you will shorted its life and you’ll end up closer to 30 Ah for its average usable power, AGM batteries also have a much shorter cycle life so replacement cost when it’s all said and done you are spending a lot for a bigger AGM to do the job of two batteries when you could split your system with that little Costco unit and keep your existing start battery and call it a wash.



If you want the ultimate system look at what @GLTHFJ60 put in moonshine.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

@SeanLX and I were having a similar convo this weekend.

 

[fj55tlc]

Where you been

I have always been here, like a stalker.

 

[scrapdaddy]

I was looking at the Jackery system and it seemed like something that could be used for different things if needed. They can be charged several ways, too. I'm guessing building your own system would save a ton of money.

 

[PabloCruise]

Nice little unit @ 450Wh capacity at only 11 pounds but at $585.00 it is a little pricy for me for just a battery. That unit has an inverter and charger built in so if those are important to you then it’s not a bad price.

To make it easier to cut through the BS we’ll convert 450 WH to Ah and talk about Ah as usable power.

450 Wh = 37.50 Ah and they say that pack has a Lion battery so I would expect you to get all 37.50 Ah or very close to it.

The portable pack I built @ 27 pounds is 60 Ah and it has a LiFePo4 battery, again I would expect to get all 60 Ah.

We’ll use @Broski battery only because he posted it here and I just looked it up. The ODX-AGM31M ODYSSEY is a very good battery but I wouldn’t depend on that battery for long term camping power for something like a refrigerator. If you camp a couple times a year then yeah it’s good enough no need to upgrade to something else but if you are headed out every other weekend then upgrade to a Li battery.

The Odyssey is rated at 92 Ah and because of the chemistry you’ll derate that by half for your usable power so we’ll call it 46 Ah of usable power at 78 pounds, if you try to continually use that battery at 46 Ah you will shorted its life and you’ll end up closer to 30 Ah for its average usable power, AGM batteries also have a much shorter cycle life so replacement cost when it’s all said and done you are spending a lot for a bigger AGM to do the job of two batteries when you could split your system with that little Costco unit and keep your existing start battery and call it a wash.



If you want the ultimate system look at what @GLTHFJ60 put in moonshine.

Thanks man! Good to hear from you!

The thing that got me excited was the $589 was for the battery in a smart box, plus the solar panel. It looked like a nice little promotional price.

So divide the 450 WH by 12V to get the 37.50 Ah, eh?

My fridge specs have 2 line items that interest me:

• Average power consumption = 40 watts <- this equals 3.33 Amps @ 12V, eh? If I am on the right track, the Lion box could run the fridge "on average" for 12 hours w/ no solar panel plugged in, yes?
• Current draw on 12 volts = ~0.7 Ah/h <- is this amp hours/hour?

Obviously the 0.7 Ah/h sounds fine if the device puts out 37 Ah. But I think there is a big difference in draw between compressor start up vs. just keeping the compressor running after it has started. If it can take that start up draw, I think this might be a good solution to let me move the fridge around between vehicles and keep stuff cold if we are not moving for a day or so...

 

[J Mack]

That unit has a 12V input so I would charge it up with the pig during the day when I’m out driving around and use it to power my fridge when my vehicle isn’t running, used this way it would have plenty of power to keep my beer cold.

If I was a base camper and needed the solar I would look at more AH, something like @GLTHFJ60 built will keep your refrigerator running for several days without needing a charge and would be about the same money as the “Safari LT” you are looking at.

 

[PabloCruise]

I will take a look at what @GLTHFJ60 is cooking up!

 

[J Mack]

I will take a look

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[PabloCruise]

Am I correct that the most efficient way to run the fridge will be off the 12v out from the battery, not the through the inverter to the 110/120v AC out?

The fridge can handle either.

 

[bobm]

Cold is very important

 

[scrapdaddy]

Am I correct that the most efficient way to run the fridge will be off the 12v out from the battery, not the through the inverter to the 110/120v AC out?

The fridge can handle either.

Pablo, I believe you are correct. What I like about those solar generators is they're handy for other uses and the fact they can be charged up by solar, ac or dc. The Jackery can be charged by two ways at the same time, solar and dc, so charge time is reduced a lot.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Am I correct that the most efficient way to run the fridge will be off the 12v out from the battery, not the through the inverter to the 110/120v AC out?

The fridge can handle either.

That is correct. The compressor in the ARB style fridges are 12v, meaning there's an inverter inside the fridge to accept 120v from a wall plug. Plugging the fridge in to your 120v inverter in your truck would be converting 12v from the truck, to 120v inverter in your truck, then in the fridge inverter from 120v back to 12v. You lose 10-30% power (efficiency) at each inverter step, depending on your specific inverter.

 

[Broski]

Nice little unit @ 450Wh capacity at only 11 pounds but at $585.00 it is a little pricy for me for just a battery. That unit has an inverter and charger built in so if those are important to you then it’s not a bad price.

To make it easier to cut through the BS we’ll convert 450 WH to Ah and talk about Ah as usable power.

450 Wh = 37.50 Ah and they say that pack has a Lion battery so I would expect you to get all 37.50 Ah or very close to it.

The portable pack I built @ 27 pounds is 60 Ah and it has a LiFePo4 battery, again I would expect to get all 60 Ah.

We’ll use @Broski battery only because he posted it here and I just looked it up. The ODX-AGM31M ODYSSEY is a very good battery but I wouldn’t depend on that battery for long term camping power for something like a refrigerator. If you camp a couple times a year then yeah it’s good enough no need to upgrade to something else but if you are headed out every other weekend then upgrade to a Li battery.

The Odyssey is rated at 92 Ah and because of the chemistry you’ll derate that by half for your usable power so we’ll call it 46 Ah of usable power at 78 pounds, if you try to continually use that battery at 46 Ah you will shorted its life and you’ll end up closer to 30 Ah for its average usable power, AGM batteries also have a much shorter cycle life so replacement cost when it’s all said and done you are spending a lot for a bigger AGM to do the job of two batteries when you could split your system with that little Costco unit and keep your existing start battery and call it a wash.



If you want the ultimate system look at what @GLTHFJ60 put in moonshine.

Again I am no expert, But was curious how you got 92 AH from the Odyssey. So I looked it up and from my research you divide the CCA by 7.25 to come up with AH.
The Odyssey has 1150 CCA divided by 7.25 = 158.6 or 158AH then derate that by half = 79.3 AH of usable power

The Odyssey battery uses pure unused lead making it a extreme battery with a longer life, more power and a deeper discharge then the average battery.

From Odyssey
Odyssey Extreme Series marine batteries are like an athlete that is both a sprinter and a long distance runner! The dual-purpose batteries have massive starting power, along with amazing deep cycling capability—up to 400 cycles at 80 percent depth of discharge. With twice the overall power and 3x the life of conventional marine batteries, the Odyssey Extreme is ideal for trolling, starting, and for powering the many on-board electronic accessories common in today's boats and recreational vehicles.

Am not sure but I think the Odyssey has more going for it then you gave it credit ?
Again just curious and wanting to learn

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Again I am no expert, But was curious how you got 92 AH from the Odyssey. So I looked it up and from my research you divide the CCA by 7.25 to come up with AH.
The Odyssey has 1150 CCA divided by 7.25 = 158.6 or 158AH then derate that by half = 79.3 AH of usable power

The Odyssey battery uses pure unused lead making it a extreme battery with a longer life, more power and a deeper discharge then the average battery.

From Odyssey
Odyssey Extreme Series marine batteries are like an athlete that is both a sprinter and a long distance runner! The dual-purpose batteries have massive starting power, along with amazing deep cycling capability—up to 400 cycles at 80 percent depth of discharge. With twice the overall power and 3x the life of conventional marine batteries, the Odyssey Extreme is ideal for trolling, starting, and for powering the many on-board electronic accessories common in today's boats and recreational vehicles.

Am not sure but I think the Odyssey has more going for it then you gave it credit ?
Again just curious and wanting to learn

Where did you find your CCA to AH capacity calculation reference? Please provide a link.

Ability to provide 1000a of "cold cranking amps" says basically nothing about the total capacity of a battery, only that it has enough capacity to provide 1000a of "CCA" for the 15 seconds or whatever that test duration is.

Agm/lead acid battery manufacturers don't typically specify their battery product's true AH (amp hour) or WH (watt-hour) capacity, which means we have to work back their capacity using real numbers. CCA and RC (reserve capacity) are tough to work back to WH or AH in my experience.