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- Jan 25, 2011
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Just replaced my CVs with CVJ axles, D/S went in without issue, snap ring on P/S seems a little too thick to slide in all the way, do they make these in slimmer thicknesses?
Axle snap ring doesn't fit?
- Thread starter indephenit
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shtbrwn86
SILVER Star
Well I pulled the E-size snap ring off and replaced it with a D-size and the D snapped in with an audible click. I pulled on the axle with the tool and with the D ring there is little to no gap. I think part of the issue may have been that the E ring was too big and not seated fully. I wonder if driving around caused it to shift which caused the noise?
After switching rings I drove a few miles around my neighborhood and don't hear the noise anymore. It also doesn't look to be scraping on the hub body either.
The brass bushing looked to be in good shape as well. I think I might have a slight brake drag issue though as I turn the wheel by hand off the ground it spins freely 90% of the way but slows down on one spot. Don't think that's related to the CV though.
Thanks for the help!
After switching rings I drove a few miles around my neighborhood and don't hear the noise anymore. It also doesn't look to be scraping on the hub body either.
The brass bushing looked to be in good shape as well. I think I might have a slight brake drag issue though as I turn the wheel by hand off the ground it spins freely 90% of the way but slows down on one spot. Don't think that's related to the CV though.
Thanks for the help!
| 43420E | RING, SNAP (FOR FRONT DRIVE SHAFT) | ||
| 90520-31005 | T=2.8 | B | |
| 90520-31006 | T=2.6 | C | |
| 90520-31007 | T=2.4 | D | |
| 90520-31008 | T=2.2 | E | |
| 90520-31009 | T=2.0 | F | |
| 90520-31010 | T=1.8 | G |
Added the corresponding letters that should be stamped on each snap ring, B thru G from thickest to thinnest, for future reference.
I’m going through doing a bunch of front end work and have run into an issue where the thinnest snap ring will not fit now. I have used a puller and have the axel seated against the brass bushing, but only have a gap of ~1.4mm. Brass bushing is fully seated, checked when installed to make sure no gap was present. Not sure what to do now to get a clip in. Any info is helpful, thanks!
Yupp, all oem with the exception of the spindle nut. Using the trail gear setup for that. This does not affect the axel placement in the flange though.
Pictures of this "trail gear setup"?
In a properly assembled pure stock wheel hub set-up, with OEM FDS (AKA CV). Snap ring gap, to narrow, for anything less than 2.2MM or thicker (97% of time 2.4mm or 2.6mm). Something is wrong.
Some possibilities:
- Outer axle of FDS, not pulled out far enough. Most time because grease, between brass bushing and FDS axle stop and or excessive grease in this cavity.
- Seal in back of knuckle and or seal on FDS, not mating as designed. Due to being bent or non OEM.
- Face of wheel hub and hub flange seat (area where gasket between them). Are beat up, to point hub flange will not seat flush.
- Non OEM hub flange gasket (to thick) used.
- Oil seal, in back of wheel hub. In backward. This gives a false breakaway preload, as seal protrudes, hitting inner backside of spindle. Thus, wheel hub can not press back fully on spindle.
- large (rear) wheel bearing outer race, not seated fully in wheel hub.
Picture below of the trail gear setup. Just more friendly to servicing more often as I understand it. Figured I would try it out.
I am certain that the fds is hitting the bushing, as I can hear the metal on metal when I manipulate it back and forth and when pulled apart see the ‘bare’ brass from being rested against. The parts are all oem except the spindle nut setup mentioned before. The knuckle seal seems to be fully seated but there is a slight variation in the height the metal ring protrudes from one side to the other, very minimal but reads on the caliper. Have tried everything to get it to be completely even, though not sure that affects much as the fds seats against the brass bushing. Of note, they are ‘oem’ made by national in Mexico. Was slightly confused by this but purchased from stealership.
The only other thing I can think is I painted the knuckle with enamel paint and including what was the machined surface the back of the hub assembly (oil seal) would rest near. As the bearings hold the hub assembly in place, I can’t imagine the paint is affecting the placement of the fds in the hub assembly. Kinda at a loss. I pulled it all apart again, discovered that by lower ball joint (555) comes out of the lower control arm with relative ease. Not sure if that’s normal. LCA seem fairly new, so shocked if I have to replace those. It’s all demoralizing at this point. Just want the damn thing back together. Any other thoughts? Bushing seems seated, bearing seat has no visible gap and gave me the ting sound when seating that I normally look for. Seal is in with the protruded portion interior and sits slightly below the abs ring. Again, all oem.
Here’s the link
Chromoly Spindle Nut Kit (Pair) - Fits 9/1975-2007 4x/5x/6x//8x/100 Series & 1979 - 1985 Mini Truck Applications (HUB300519)
Toyota Land Cruiser Chromoly Spindle Nut Kit
cruiserteq.com
What did you set breakaway preload to (lb)?
Is hub seal in correct?
Correct
Wrong
What did you use to pull axle out , then spin wheel, to settle grease.
Did you replace wheel bearing?
Did you keep all wheel bearing with their races?
Is hub seal in correct?
Correct
Wrong
What did you use to pull axle out , then spin wheel, to settle grease.
Did you replace wheel bearing?
Did you keep all wheel bearing with their races?
Hub seal correct.
I used cruiser patch tool first, but didn’t work well for me, so used a bolt and carefully worked it in and out using a bolt in the axel and a pair of pliers on the bolt until it was mated on the brass bushing. Confident it is seated.
New bearings, races, seal, gaskets, brass bushings, needle bearing, flange bolts/nuts/cone washers etc. Did not replace knuckles or hub assembly but did flatten mating surfaces for ball joints where someone else used a bfh. Everything else was in good shape.
Preload was set at ~14. Will revisit that in a bit after I’ve rolled around a few miles to make sure it remains the same.
I ended up pulling it apart and removed the paint from the machined surface on the knuckle though I don’t know that impacts anything. Re seated the ball joint, stays in the lca but doesn’t take a lot to get it out. Put it all back together and was closer on the needed clearance. My temporary solution was to file the snap ring a bit to get it to seat in the groove with needed clearance. Will run it for a bit and check to see if things settle into place. Need to order some more F/G snap rings. Have a set of the remaining sizes. Guess we’ll see how it goes.
Good idea. Drive for a bit as is. Then recheck snap ring with tires on ground, vehicle in neutral stance. Use you bolt in axle to pull out axle hard. Check snap ring gap.
Paint on back of spindle, back of wheel hub seal. Would not make contact with a properly installed seal. You would have send witness marks, if it did.
Note: If inner wheel bearing race not fully seated, in wheel hub. Result is, snap ring gap is smaller. I run, my thinnest feeler gauge blade behind race to make sure no gap (seated). One think that can help seat. Is a very high torque on wheel bearing adjustor nut. Which to get 14lb breakaway preload, with new bearings. You be up there ~70ft-lbf.
Paint on back of spindle, back of wheel hub seal. Would not make contact with a properly installed seal. You would have send witness marks, if it did.
Note: If inner wheel bearing race not fully seated, in wheel hub. Result is, snap ring gap is smaller. I run, my thinnest feeler gauge blade behind race to make sure no gap (seated). One think that can help seat. Is a very high torque on wheel bearing adjustor nut. Which to get 14lb breakaway preload, with new bearings. You be up there ~70ft-lbf.
When you say OEM bearings, were the Koyo or Timken? From a dealer or specialty shop?
In my recent experience doing this job, the hub flange and hub flange gasket made the biggest difference between the snap ring fitting and not fitting.
Whoever did my hubs last time bodged it. The spindle nut was chisel-torqued, there were 2 gaskets under the hub flange, and that extra thickness was dealt with by hammering the hub flange down.
If you have not already:
1. Check the mating surface of you hub flange for flatness. The hammer strikes on mine created a lip that prevented it from seating. Some Emory paper on a flat board corrected that.
2. Make sure you’re using a single gasket, OEM. An extra one will push your flange out .5mm - enough to prevent the snap ring from fitting.
3. Aftermarket hub flanges may be dimensionally off, so use OEM, but I’ll assume that if yours fit before it should fit again.
4. Scrape the hub’s seating surface flat
You want to get rid of anything that adds to the hub-gasket-flange stackup. I’ve read here that some folks use RTV instead of the paper flange gasket, which will create a shorter stackup, but that’s a bandaid fix.
Whoever did my hubs last time bodged it. The spindle nut was chisel-torqued, there were 2 gaskets under the hub flange, and that extra thickness was dealt with by hammering the hub flange down.
If you have not already:
1. Check the mating surface of you hub flange for flatness. The hammer strikes on mine created a lip that prevented it from seating. Some Emory paper on a flat board corrected that.
2. Make sure you’re using a single gasket, OEM. An extra one will push your flange out .5mm - enough to prevent the snap ring from fitting.
3. Aftermarket hub flanges may be dimensionally off, so use OEM, but I’ll assume that if yours fit before it should fit again.
4. Scrape the hub’s seating surface flat
You want to get rid of anything that adds to the hub-gasket-flange stackup. I’ve read here that some folks use RTV instead of the paper flange gasket, which will create a shorter stackup, but that’s a bandaid fix.
Good points.
Personally. I don't restore hub flanges. I replace them.
You mention restoring mating surfaces, but not replacing hub flange. It these hub flange get deformed by BFH. I just replace them.
You also noted, using CVJ CV (AKA: FDS) remans. CVJ is good and reconditioning the CV's (races and bearings and within tulips (CVs)). CVJ does little to nothing with axle, except paint them. They paint all three axle FDS, which I hate.
I've a few issues with CVJ CV's:
- Boots aren't very good. We can pay extra for better red boots or OEM. But then cost is near same as new OEM FDS. With shipping and loss or core charge. OEM are much better deal.
- Dust shield on outer axle. Years ago I know, they did nothing with this seal. Today IDK! They may have found a replacement. This seal is not sold for the Land Cruiser FDS. If your dust shield protruding out further than that of new OEM. That would reduce gap. It would also give a false breakaway preload. The snap ring gap, main function. Is to set the FDS dust shield into the oil seal in back of knuckle. The rubber in these gets old. This is one more reason to just buy new OEM FDS.
- Paint on splines. Where paint, does help increase surface area, of worn axle splines. It's a short term cheat, that wears faster than metal of new splines.
- Paint on outer axle needle bearing surface. The paint get's into needle bearings. Which is not a good thing.
- Paint on seal surface, of outer axle. Seal ride on paint, when designed to ride on bare steel. Which is not a good thing.
- Splines and snap groove damage. CVJ can do nothing about this. Except perhaps file groove a tad, if a few took a hit.
When I pulled apart my front end to do a new CV and flanges I found a non-OEM snap ring on one axle it was thinner than any available OEM and also overall smaller diameter than the oem. The dust seal on the CV that kind of overlaps the dust seal on the back of the knuckle was super bent down and clearly had been grinding into the knuckle seal. The shop must have been having trouble getting the snap ring on and went and found a smaller one rather than figuring out the actual problem.
Once I straightened out that dust shield on the axle and put a new seal on the back of the knuckle I ended up with the same snap ring on both sides.
Once I straightened out that dust shield on the axle and put a new seal on the back of the knuckle I ended up with the same snap ring on both sides.