So close to getting my daughters 40 running again. Got the freshly rebuilt motor back in and most everything hooked up. Poured in 1 gallon of antifreeze and 1 gallon of oil. Almost immediately oil was dripping underneath. Tightened a few oil pand bolts that were hardly finger tight and it stopped. That's where I left it a couple nights ago. Just made a quick stop by the shed to show my daughter and her friend the progress and found about 1/2 quart of oil dead center under the motor. And a small spot of antifreeze on the ground located roughly below the middle of the drivers seat. I'll be climbing underneath tomorrow to figure it out. School starts in a week, and something tells me if I don't get this done, I'll be the one carpooling.
Arrgh!
- Thread starter ccasteel
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Dead under the motor points to the skid plate on your pan and the spot welds on the bottom popping loose. Oil will come from below the skid plate and migrate out.
Coolant? I'd start with bypassing the heater in the cab. that leak is more than likely your rear heater but for safety i'd bypass both heaters and just loop them back at the firewall to isolate a possible leak you can fix later when it's a bit cooler out.
Coolant? I'd start with bypassing the heater in the cab. that leak is more than likely your rear heater but for safety i'd bypass both heaters and just loop them back at the firewall to isolate a possible leak you can fix later when it's a bit cooler out.
- Thread starter
- #3
Gasket?
Okay so I've been underneath, and it appears to be leaking from the area where I tightened the bolt a few days ago. Can't tell for sure what the cause is, So I want to drop the pan to see what I can see. Couple questions: I finally got internet access in the shed, so I'll be watching.
Is dropping the pan as simple as a few bolts and there it goes?
Do I need to replace my brand new gasket? Or anything else for that matter?
If so, does anyone locally have one I can snag quickly and replace later.
Okay so I've been underneath, and it appears to be leaking from the area where I tightened the bolt a few days ago. Can't tell for sure what the cause is, So I want to drop the pan to see what I can see. Couple questions: I finally got internet access in the shed, so I'll be watching.
Is dropping the pan as simple as a few bolts and there it goes?
Do I need to replace my brand new gasket? Or anything else for that matter?
If so, does anyone locally have one I can snag quickly and replace later.
- Thread starter
- #4
Picture
Sorry for being a thread hog, I just keep thinking of more stuff. This is strange to me. The top side is definitely dry. It appears to be coming from the bolt in the middle. I haven't had one of these apart in many years and don't know what all I'll need to replace if I take off the pan. And I'm so close to getting it started, that I'm hoping someone might have some suggestion before I start taking things apart again.
Sorry for being a thread hog, I just keep thinking of more stuff. This is strange to me. The top side is definitely dry. It appears to be coming from the bolt in the middle. I haven't had one of these apart in many years and don't know what all I'll need to replace if I take off the pan. And I'm so close to getting it started, that I'm hoping someone might have some suggestion before I start taking things apart again.
Pan
Charles, it's as simple as 20 or 22 bolts (can't remember) to remove the pan and then making sure the surface is good and clean, the pan lip is not bent, and then re-install, with ideally a new 1 piece gasket from Toyota. I just happen to have one in the garage, if you need it.
Those bolts only torque to 69 INCH pounds. Very important. I do apply sealant(RTV) to the gasket all around and liberal sealant to the corners where the gasket and main bearing caps are. (front and back). None of the bolts require sealant.
As for the coolant, yeah, heater hoses are culprits. I would just methodically go through and make sure they are all tight. Not overtight either.
Good luck
Ex
Charles, it's as simple as 20 or 22 bolts (can't remember) to remove the pan and then making sure the surface is good and clean, the pan lip is not bent, and then re-install, with ideally a new 1 piece gasket from Toyota. I just happen to have one in the garage, if you need it.
Those bolts only torque to 69 INCH pounds. Very important. I do apply sealant(RTV) to the gasket all around and liberal sealant to the corners where the gasket and main bearing caps are. (front and back). None of the bolts require sealant.
As for the coolant, yeah, heater hoses are culprits. I would just methodically go through and make sure they are all tight. Not overtight either.
Good luck
Ex
- Thread starter
- #6
Just the info I was looking for. And by the response I can infer I should not try reusing the gasket the machine shop put on just a few weeks ago. I will gladly take that gasket off your hands. I'll give you a shout tomorrow and arrange to come up to get it. I'll be at it here another couple hours so it probably won't be terribly early.
One thing though. I am not sure now... without you starting it, (or have you cranked it over?), would there be oil above the gasket, that could then leak out by the bolt? By that I mean would the oil level be above the gasket. I do not have a 2F to go out and check how far that dipstick goes down.
As suggested too, make sure the little skid plate under the pan has not started leaking. They are known to pop the welds and/or rust through at the welds.
I would love to come help, but I will be out of the house all day. I will put the gasket outside somewhere. Call me if you decide to come up north. I am available tomorrow.
I will PM you my address.
Ex
As suggested too, make sure the little skid plate under the pan has not started leaking. They are known to pop the welds and/or rust through at the welds.
I would love to come help, but I will be out of the house all day. I will put the gasket outside somewhere. Call me if you decide to come up north. I am available tomorrow.
I will PM you my address.
Ex
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check your fuel pump attachment as well. Just noticed the leak is below that. clean the whole area up with some brake clean, fire it up and then try and id the leak as well.
If the machine shop did not clean the old gasket material off it will leak. 2F's are a PAIN to clean the old gaskets off without the proper tools.. Highly recommend a die grinder and 3m scotchbrite "Roloc" disks for this job. it is my #1 tool for diff/pan/ other gasket cleanup and removal..
Any updates? How can we help.
If the machine shop did not clean the old gasket material off it will leak. 2F's are a PAIN to clean the old gaskets off without the proper tools.. Highly recommend a die grinder and 3m scotchbrite "Roloc" disks for this job. it is my #1 tool for diff/pan/ other gasket cleanup and removal..
Any updates? How can we help.
- Thread starter
- #10
I guess my post from this morning didn't take. After removing the oil pan, it was obvious the cause. Somewhere down the line a chisel or similar object was used to pry off the pan. Leaving a nice dent and a direct route for oil to the bolt hole. I have to thank Brian for spending many hours with me yesterday getting it fixed and almost running. Below is a pic of the pan dent. so far no leaks.
That leads me to my next question. The engine started, but will not run at idle speed. It's hard to start and keep running at any speed. It backfires a bit and needs some carb cleaner to get it started initially. Checked that the dizzy is in correctly. Checked for vacuum leaks and doesn't seem to be any significant ones. I'm not a great troubleshooter, but I'm real good at following instructions. What ideas do you have for me to try?
It is a de-smoged but otherwise stock '76 2F. The pics below show the carb. There is a red "heater" hose coming from the outboard side. Originally headed for the smog pump. (You can see it in pic 2 just below the master cylinder) PO had it connected to the tube on top of the air cleaner that I've seen blocked off on most de-smoged vehicles. Is that acceptible, or should I do something else with it? We've been holding it shut until I get the air cleaner cover back on.
That leads me to my next question. The engine started, but will not run at idle speed. It's hard to start and keep running at any speed. It backfires a bit and needs some carb cleaner to get it started initially. Checked that the dizzy is in correctly. Checked for vacuum leaks and doesn't seem to be any significant ones. I'm not a great troubleshooter, but I'm real good at following instructions. What ideas do you have for me to try?
It is a de-smoged but otherwise stock '76 2F. The pics below show the carb. There is a red "heater" hose coming from the outboard side. Originally headed for the smog pump. (You can see it in pic 2 just below the master cylinder) PO had it connected to the tube on top of the air cleaner that I've seen blocked off on most de-smoged vehicles. Is that acceptible, or should I do something else with it? We've been holding it shut until I get the air cleaner cover back on.
Update
Erik, we got the pan straightened out and put it back on. I think it is all good now.
Here is what we have. We could get it started, but it would not run very good. Sometimes backfires, sometimes won't start. We checked all the basics, but had no luck getting it to run without help. This motor ran fine before it locked up. It was rebuilt, and everything bolted back on as it was.
After I left I came up with a few things that Charles can check tonight, and then see from there. If it's anything electrical, I am not the guy to help.
1. Make sure the dizzy is not off by a tooth. (I did verify it is in correct (not 180 off)) Get it to TDC, make sure you are on compression on cyl 1 and then see that the rotor points to exactly the cyl 1 pin on the cap.
2. make sure there are no vacuum leaks. Make a better plug for that big hose off the carb. Do this by spraying some carb cleaner around the base, and by the manifolds. It would be good if you could get it running better first I guess.
3. The floatbowl was showing full sometimes instead of middle. Maybe look at that. The carbon buildup in the carb is indicative of how it is running, so once you figure that out, that will stop.
4. If you have no luck with any of the above, I would go back to the original dizzy, and see if that makes a difference.
EDIT: I see we posted up in the same timeframe!
Ex
Erik, we got the pan straightened out and put it back on. I think it is all good now.
Here is what we have. We could get it started, but it would not run very good. Sometimes backfires, sometimes won't start. We checked all the basics, but had no luck getting it to run without help. This motor ran fine before it locked up. It was rebuilt, and everything bolted back on as it was.
After I left I came up with a few things that Charles can check tonight, and then see from there. If it's anything electrical, I am not the guy to help.
1. Make sure the dizzy is not off by a tooth. (I did verify it is in correct (not 180 off)) Get it to TDC, make sure you are on compression on cyl 1 and then see that the rotor points to exactly the cyl 1 pin on the cap.
2. make sure there are no vacuum leaks. Make a better plug for that big hose off the carb. Do this by spraying some carb cleaner around the base, and by the manifolds. It would be good if you could get it running better first I guess.
3. The floatbowl was showing full sometimes instead of middle. Maybe look at that. The carbon buildup in the carb is indicative of how it is running, so once you figure that out, that will stop.
4. If you have no luck with any of the above, I would go back to the original dizzy, and see if that makes a difference.
EDIT: I see we posted up in the same timeframe!
Ex
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Floatbowl full instead of half is a problem. Sounds like something has crud in it..
Or float / needle stuck
Did you put a timing light on it with advance/retard disconnected and plugged?
By "heater hose" you mean that thing that went to the "flap" in the front of the air cleaner? Don't worry bout that at all..
PCV clogged? vacuum leak? and your sure it's not 180 off?
Start by timing it. I can bring a timing light with me to work if you need.
Or float / needle stuck
Did you put a timing light on it with advance/retard disconnected and plugged?
By "heater hose" you mean that thing that went to the "flap" in the front of the air cleaner? Don't worry bout that at all..
PCV clogged? vacuum leak? and your sure it's not 180 off?
Start by timing it. I can bring a timing light with me to work if you need.
Sounds to me like fuel delivery is the problem. if you put some fuel down the carb, will it start up easy?
Might be time for a good carb cleaning.
k
Might be time for a good carb cleaning.
k
We could not get it to run good, or long enough to get the timing light on it. That was the next thing to do. As for the dizzy, I did verify it is not 180 wrong, but I did not verify it is right on #1 either.
The hose is the rear one, about an inch dia, coming from the back.I believe it use to go to the smog pump.
Fuel supply is a possibility, since if we sprayed carb cleaner in it, it would start easier.
I have been known to run a car with starting fluid to test the fuel side of the equation.
- Thread starter
- #17
I only had enough time tonight to get some measurements and take a picture to post. (Then left my camera there) I should be out Wednesday to check on a few of these things. Then I can fill you in on what I find.
Erik - the "heater" hose is about 2" long and is attached to a 5/8 OD pipe coming out the side of the carb and turning forward 90 degrees. I plan to just plug it up.
mwalls - the dizzy is original to this car. I don't know if it's been modified for the desmog. But everything ran fine when I first bought it in September.
Erik - the "heater" hose is about 2" long and is attached to a 5/8 OD pipe coming out the side of the carb and turning forward 90 degrees. I plan to just plug it up.
mwalls - the dizzy is original to this car. I don't know if it's been modified for the desmog. But everything ran fine when I first bought it in September.
Huge vacuum leak if you have open holes in carb. Start there, verify fuel from pump. verify float level, pictures and report back. I think i remember the piece but need to see it to confirm.
In the engine pic there is no vacuum hose going to the brake booster is it missing, disconnected, or pluged?
- Thread starter
- #20
I got out of work about 15 minutes ago and family night got cancelled. Too many kids activities or so is what I was told. So I stopped by the shop on the way home. Here's a couple findings.
At TDC the rotor points directly at cylinder 1 position in the cap. I was hoping otherwise.
The attached pic #1 shows the tube on my carb that I've decided to just plug. It used to have a hose from it to the air cleaner cover shown to the right in pic #1.
Rob - I looked and the only line I have going to the brake booster is about a 3/8 hose going from the back of the intake to the top right of the booster. Shoudl there be another vacuum line? If so, I can't tell where it would attach. See pic #2
I'll be back up tomorrow night and can actually get dirty and spend more time checking it out. Thanks for all the help and keep the ideas coming.
At TDC the rotor points directly at cylinder 1 position in the cap. I was hoping otherwise.
The attached pic #1 shows the tube on my carb that I've decided to just plug. It used to have a hose from it to the air cleaner cover shown to the right in pic #1.
Rob - I looked and the only line I have going to the brake booster is about a 3/8 hose going from the back of the intake to the top right of the booster. Shoudl there be another vacuum line? If so, I can't tell where it would attach. See pic #2
I'll be back up tomorrow night and can actually get dirty and spend more time checking it out. Thanks for all the help and keep the ideas coming.
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