80 Series Suspension Component Mods for 4" Lift (1 Viewer)

[Ryno7970]

I'm a do-it-yourself-er; I can't help it. I just have to figure things out, and I absolutely love the challenge, as well as the reward. That being said, I'm never one to assume I know better than someone else, especially an expert who's done it before (maybe even 100 times before). So, in my stubborn journey to figure my own suspension out, I'm seeking the help of the experts here to guide me down the right path! I’m not looking for proprietary “secrets”, just input from the pro’s!

I'll start by trying to keep it simple, and see where it goes from here. I've decided to do a 4" lift, and that's based on the research I've done on the forums here for my specific needs and uses of Walter (Walter is my '93 FZJ80, 245,000 miles, bone stock, purchased at the beginning of this year). Not necessarily looking for any input on lift height- I’ve done a lot of research and made the call with the manufacturer- unless anyone thinks that, "if you're gonna go with 4", why not just do 6""... but that's probably another thread...

So, since its purchase, I've built a strong relationship of trust with Walter, so I feel like the old man deserves the best. But, since I don't have $5K to drop right this moment, I'm both taking my time, as well as using my available resources to combine aftermarket springs and shocks, paired with custom fab components for the lift. My friend has a huge metal shop, so definitely going to use that to my advantage, saving money, but doing it right!

Oh- AND IF ANYONE HAS A CAD OR 3D MODEL FILE OF FRAME AND SUSPENSION, PLEEEEEASE!!! SHARE! I’ve asked on two separate threads, but no dice… ugh… OR- if anyone has sketches, dimensions of stock parts, etc. I can start from, that would be AWESOME!! I’m drawing this all up in CAD/3D, and by the time I’m done, I’ll be happy to share what I’ve got!!

Here's what I really need to know (please let me know if I'm missing anything):

1. Front control arms
   1. Is it best to have new arms, as opposed to just castor correction plates? I really feel like new arms are the best bet for durability/strength, but happy for other input here. Not really even a question of “how hard are you going to push them”- just thinking for the long run, that’s the best bet, especially since my friend can mill them out of plate for me.
      
      
   2. Castor correction – should I add drop brackets to maintain a similar arc to the original, or is an extended control arm with correct castor angle best (longer arc)? Planning to return the castor to original stock angle, but open for input if someone feels otherwise
2. Rear control arms
   1. Planning on adjustable uppers – how much longer than stock, and how much adjustability should I build in?
      
      
   2. Should I do anything with the lowers? I’ve seen a lot of folks go with beefier ones, but dimensionally, are stock ones good with adjustable uppers?
3. Panhard Rods
   1. I plan to make adjustable ones, but how much longer than stock should I go, and how much adjustability is needed?
4. Front and Rear Sway Bars
   1. I plan to just make some drop brackets, unless anyone would advise differently?
5. That’s all I can think of for the moment, but I’m typing this out at work, and I should probably get back to it…!

Thanks in advance to anyone/everyone who can help!

 

[scottryana]

Sounds like you are on the right track. As to the need/desire for drop brackets that is something you will need to decide. If you wanted to keep all stock geometry sure just drop everything down the same amount that you lift keeping angles the same as stock at least superficially. But more often than not people want to add a lift so that things are not "hanging down"

1. So with that in mind, and if you want to spend the time doing the math I would do longer front control arms, with stock caster, and move the rear mount further back on the frame. Use OEM bushings in all locations.

2. For the rear I would look at extended arms top and bottom and yes the top should be adjustable for pinion angle.

3. The final length will be determined by the final ride height. Give yourself 2-3" of adjustability and it should be plenty.

4. Drop brackets for the sways are a good idea, and perhaps even look into a set of disconnects if you are going to wheel heavily.

 

[Rivman1243]

I'm a do-it-yourself-er; I can't help it. I just have to figure things out, and I absolutely love the challenge, as well as the reward. That being said, I'm never one to assume I know better than someone else, especially an expert who's done it before (maybe even 100 times before). So, in my stubborn journey to figure my own suspension out, I'm seeking the help of the experts here to guide me down the right path! I’m not looking for proprietary “secrets”, just input from the pro’s!

I'll start by trying to keep it simple, and see where it goes from here. I've decided to do a 4" lift, and that's based on the research I've done on the forums here for my specific needs and uses of Walter (Walter is my '93 FZJ80, 245,000 miles, bone stock, purchased at the beginning of this year). Not necessarily looking for any input on lift height- I’ve done a lot of research and made the call with the manufacturer- unless anyone thinks that, "if you're gonna go with 4", why not just do 6""... but that's probably another thread...

So, since its purchase, I've built a strong relationship of trust with Walter, so I feel like the old man deserves the best. But, since I don't have $5K to drop right this moment, I'm both taking my time, as well as using my available resources to combine aftermarket springs and shocks, paired with custom fab components for the lift. My friend has a huge metal shop, so definitely going to use that to my advantage, saving money, but doing it right!

Oh- AND IF ANYONE HAS A CAD OR 3D MODEL FILE OF FRAME AND SUSPENSION, PLEEEEEASE!!! SHARE! I’ve asked on two separate threads, but no dice… ugh… OR- if anyone has sketches, dimensions of stock parts, etc. I can start from, that would be AWESOME!! I’m drawing this all up in CAD/3D, and by the time I’m done, I’ll be happy to share what I’ve got!!

Here's what I really need to know (please let me know if I'm missing anything):

1. Front control arms
   1. Is it best to have new arms, as opposed to just castor correction plates? I really feel like new arms are the best bet for durability/strength, but happy for other input here. Not really even a question of “how hard are you going to push them”- just thinking for the long run, that’s the best bet, especially since my friend can mill them out of plate for me.
      
      
   2. Castor correction – should I add drop brackets to maintain a similar arc to the original, or is an extended control arm with correct castor angle best (longer arc)? Planning to return the castor to original stock angle, but open for input if someone feels otherwise
2. Rear control arms
   1. Planning on adjustable uppers – how much longer than stock, and how much adjustability should I build in?
      
      
   2. Should I do anything with the lowers? I’ve seen a lot of folks go with beefier ones, but dimensionally, are stock ones good with adjustable uppers?
3. Panhard Rods
   1. I plan to make adjustable ones, but how much longer than stock should I go, and how much adjustability is needed?
4. Front and Rear Sway Bars
   1. I plan to just make some drop brackets, unless anyone would advise differently?
5. That’s all I can think of for the moment, but I’m typing this out at work, and I should probably get back to it…!

Thanks in advance to anyone/everyone who can help!
View attachment 1519694

Is this what you're looking for

 

[cybrstar]

1. Search
2. Search
3. Search

With the essay you just wrote you could have gotten all the information that you needed.

 

[half k cruiser]

I would avoid the drop brackets if possible and run the longer arms like you are thinking. As for the rear sway bar just lower the links and you will be good to go. Have you thought about moving the tie rod out from behind the axle ?

 

[half k cruiser]

1. Search
2. Search
3. Search

With the essay you just wrote you could have gotten all the information that you needed.

What a wonderful contribution to the mans post. FWIW if everyone that came on this forum to ask a question searched through all of the relevant/remotely relevant posts , assuming they found their answers, there would be hardly any conversation going on in the forum. I just looked through the first page of 80 tech and I would say less than half of the threads are anything original.

 

[landtank]

at 4" lift the front axle is in exactly the same spot, vertically speaking, as it was at the factory location. Not sure why you would want to lengthen the arms. It seems to me you would want to maintain the axle's position.

 

[bajaphile]

A major component to your thread which is missing.... what is the intended purpose of your 80? Onroad/Offroad, terrain, etc.

You can look at Slee 4" kit which is pretty much everything you'll need for a 4" lift. Most guys run caster correction plates, and in my opinion are great. If you really want to maintain the "stock feel", check out the Man A Fre drop brackets as well.

With 3-4" of lift you'll most likely need to get a double cardan front driveshaft to avoid vibrations. Adjustable panhards are to just center the axle under the truck, and are not required. To center the axle, the panhards are lengthened about 0.25-0.5". For the rear uppers, they actually need to be shorter to move the pinion down flat again to match the angle of the xfercase output... I believe mine were adjusted about 0.25" or so it reach that with 4" of lift.

Other items are front and rear swaybar drops and longer brake lines.

 

[hamishpotter]

I am digging the stock, de-flared 80 look. Slee 4" would be the way to go IMO if you lift. piecing together can be a challenge to get right, but I'm a novice. good luck, post up a thread of the build..

 

[Kaninja]

Well, since you have a friend with a metal (fab shop I assume?), perhaps a cut and turn of the front axle will give the best results? The experts can jump in here as I have never done this myself, but have read a few have had very positive results doing this. Depending where your 4" lift ends up?....4-1/4" to 4-3/4" unloaded?

Just a suggestion, perhaps it's bollocks....but I like outside the box ideas.

 

[cybrstar]

What a wonderful contribution to the mans post. FWIW if everyone that came on this forum to ask a question searched through all of the relevant/remotely relevant posts , assuming they found their answers, there would be hardly any conversation going on in the forum. I just looked through the first page of 80 tech and I would say less than half of the threads are anything original.

If I recall correctly, I just answered someone's 3 weeks ago about the same 4 inch lift thingamabbaba.

Who has a 4 inch lift?

 

[Ryno7970]

Definitely appreciate everyone's feedback. Just to clarify, searching this forum yields hundreds, if not thousands of answers on the various different questions I'm asking. I've spent hours digging through all the available info here, and I was really looking for some direct answers, so thanks to those who have already chimed in.

So, to circle back on a few of the questions that have been asked back in this thread, here's a bit more...

The purpose of my rig is, well, I want it all (who doesn't). I want to continue using it as my DD, but with the ability that go (almost) anywhere. I used to do serious crawling and off-roading in my '79 FJ40, but haven't been able to do any of that since I sold it years ago to move to California.

Now, I find myself with some new friends that hit the trails out here, and I'm jonesing to join them. Camping, playing in the mud and dirt, facing down rocks and stumps- all the fun stuff. But, I'm not willing to turn the beast into an off-road-only rig, since it's also my DD.

My friend has a metal/fab/do-it-all-but-casting shop, so I can draw pretty much anything up and he can make it. I have a neighbor who did the Slee 4" and swears by it, but I do want to save a bit, and by pulling everything off the shelf, that also means I don't get to have the fun of the DIY!

Thanks also to bajaphile- I do plan to get a double cardan in front, extend brake lines, and appreciate the reminder about the swaybar drops.

Curious about the longer control arms- anyone have input on that? Is the ride quality better, or are there other advantages?

Same question about moving the tie rod from behind the axle. How have you guys done it, and what are the bennies?

Thanks again!!

 

[Ryno7970]

Is this what you're looking for

Thanks for sending this- I will probably use these to start the CAD drawings with. Much appreciated!

 

[Rivman1243]

Thanks for sending this- I will probably use these to start the CAD drawings with. Much appreciated!

No problem! Hope it helps!

 

[Ryno7970]

Well, since you have a friend with a metal (fab shop I assume?), perhaps a cut and turn of the front axle will give the best results? The experts can jump in here as I have never done this myself, but have read a few have had very positive results doing this. Depending where your 4" lift ends up?....4-1/4" to 4-3/4" unloaded?

Just a suggestion, perhaps it's bollocks....but I like outside the box ideas.

Interesting idea- but my understanding of axle geometry is that you want the driveline from the transfer case and the pinion to be parallel, and the drive shaft the only thing at an angle:

Photo by Richard Meyer

 

[Ryno7970]

Sounds like you are on the right track. As to the need/desire for drop brackets that is something you will need to decide. If you wanted to keep all stock geometry sure just drop everything down the same amount that you lift keeping angles the same as stock at least superficially. But more often than not people want to add a lift so that things are not "hanging down"

1. So with that in mind, and if you want to spend the time doing the math I would do longer front control arms, with stock caster, and move the rear mount further back on the frame. Use OEM bushings in all locations.

2. For the rear I would look at extended arms top and bottom and yes the top should be adjustable for pinion angle.

3. The final length will be determined by the final ride height. Give yourself 2-3" of adjustability and it should be plenty.

4. Drop brackets for the sways are a good idea, and perhaps even look into a set of disconnects if you are going to wheel heavily.

Much appreciated, especially for being the first to reply. Really interested in your input on advantages of longer front arms?

Agree that having things up and out of the way is best as well.

Any examples of disconnects that you recommend?

 

[Kaninja]

Interesting idea- but my understanding of axle geometry is that you want the driveline from the transfer case and the pinion to be parallel, and the drive shaft the only thing at an angle:

Photo by Richard Meyer

You can do a cut & turn of the knuckles. This will allow you to dial in the caster angle without needing plates or bushings. It also is done independantly of and therefore not effecting pinion angle....other than the 6-8° the pinion angle has already been changed by a ~4" lift.

The more I look at my axle the more I see a C&T at the knuckles being the best solution as I move to a 4" lift.

 

[RFB]

Sounds like you are on the right track. As to the need/desire for drop brackets that is something you will need to decide. If you wanted to keep all stock geometry sure just drop everything down the same amount that you lift keeping angles the same as stock at least superficially. But more often than not people want to add a lift so that things are not "hanging down"

1. So with that in mind, and if you want to spend the time doing the math I would do longer front control arms, with stock caster, and move the rear mount further back on the frame. Use OEM bushings in all locations.

2. For the rear I would look at extended arms top and bottom and yes the top should be adjustable for pinion angle.

3. The final length will be determined by the final ride height. Give yourself 2-3" of adjustability and it should be plenty.

4. Drop brackets for the sways are a good idea, and perhaps even look into a set of disconnects if you are going to wheel heavily.

Just a quik hi jack, whats a good manufactorer for control arms on a 5 in lifted fzj?

 

[HDJdreams]

My friend has a metal/fab/do-it-all-but-casting shop, so I can draw pretty much anything up and he can make it. I have a neighbor who did the Slee 4" and swears by it, but I do want to save a bit, and by pulling everything off the shelf, that also means I don't get to have the fun of the DIY!

Umm, if you love the joy of DIY, have at it! Having some experience in prototyping and manufacturing, I believe you would be hard pressed to save anything over a kit when matching quality of components. That is just cost of materials and tooling, not counting all your time to reinvent the wheel. And all that is assuming you get it right on the first try.

If you want something different than off the shelf, like longer radius arms that's different. Do it and post it!

 

[TexasJack]

Take a look at the Slee 4 inch lift. This is the lift I have and I have the rear heavy weight progressive springs. It is a very complete kit and provides everything you need to get your suspension back to a factory like drive on the road with excellent articulation off-road.

Slee - Toyota 80 Series Toyota Land Cruiser Suspension

Also read through Slee's newbie guide for 80 owners.

Slee - 80 Series Land Cruiser Newbie Guide