80 Series Project!!! (2 Viewers)

[Zeus0623]

I called Christo this morning. He mentioned that it may be a clogged fuel pump. He also mentioned that you had a similar issue? I am waiting to hear back from my mechanic today.

Do I let this guy keep fiddling with the electrical issues or take it to someone else and start over?

This is a lot like dealing with my wife. I will say one thing and she will go down a completely different path...

You are trying to solve 1 relatively simple issue. The engine doesn't fire when cranking without starter fluid. HOWEVER, once the engine is started it runs normally.
That means one of 2 things.
1. The fuel pump is not running during cranking.
2. The ECU is not seeing the starter signal.

That's it. Those are the only 2 possibilities. How do I know this? Because the freaking motor runs well once started. If the ECU was faulty, this engine WOULD NOT RUN.

This is a tractor motor from 1986. If your mechanic can't find the issue, then find another mechanic. You live in Colorado. There are Land Cruiser clubs everywhere out there. There are Land Cruiser specialty shops everywhere. Do some research.

 

[jonheld]

I called Christo this morning. He mentioned that it may be a clogged fuel pump. He also mentioned that you had a similar issue? I am waiting to hear back from my mechanic today.

Do I let this guy keep fiddling with the electrical issues or take it to someone else and start over?

I never had an issue where I needed starter fluid to start. I had very long crank times due to a failed center button in the distributor cap, but she always fired.
I doubt that it's a clogged fuel pump. Again, the engine runs normally once started. I assume you have driven this truck and it performs well on the road. That rules out fuel delivery.

Personally, I have no faith in your mechanic, but I'm not there and I haven't spoken or met him/her. That's your choice. Swapping out the ECU was the wrong path IMO. I think he/she is overlooking something simple. It is never that complicated on a 3FE. It's first generation EFI from 1986. There is no magic here. Always look for the simple things first.

 

[jonheld]

First thing I would do is crack the banjo bolt on the cold start injector. Crank the starter.
Does fuel squirt out?
If yes, then fuel pump is running during crank.
If no, then fuel pump not running during crank.

If the fuel pump is running, then the fuel rail is pressurized.
Are you getting spark when cranking?
I will assume yes, or this engine would never run.

If yes from FP, are the injectors firing during cranking?
Crank engine and pull spark plug. Is it wet with fuel?

I mean this really isn't that hard to figure out. You need fuel, spark, air, and compression. Which one are you missing????

 

[Zeus0623]

Jon,

I hear you. The mystery is why this rig will start up after sitting for a while, no problem. Once it has ran, that’s when I have issues.

First thing I would do is crack the banjo bolt on the cold start injector. Crank the starter.
Does fuel squirt out?
If yes, then fuel pump is running during crank.
If no, then fuel pump not running during crank.

If the fuel pump is running, then the fuel rail is pressurized.
Are you getting spark when cranking?
I will assume yes, or this engine would never run.

If yes from FP, are the injectors firing during cranking?
Crank engine and pull spark plug. Is it wet with fuel?

I mean this really isn't that hard to figure out. You need fuel, spark, air, and compression. Which one are you missing????

 

[jonheld]

Jon,

I hear you. The mystery is why this rig will start up after sitting for a while, no problem. Once it has ran, that’s when I have issues.

Hold on a second here. Are you saying that this only happens when the motor is hot? From your past descriptions, this was an issue with start up in all conditions. Now you're saying this engine will reliably start when cold?

That sound you hear is my head banging on the desk.

I'm going to ask you some yes or no questions. Please think carefully about your answers before typing your response.

1. Does this engine reliably start when cold?
2. Does this engine continue to run well once started?
3. Does this engine continue to run well once it gets hot with reliable power to the wheels?
4. Does this engine have trouble starting back up after it is hot? (run for a long period of time then shut down)
5. Does this engine have trouble starting back up when cold? (started normally when cold, shut down before warm up, restarted)

 

[Zeus0623]

Simple answers below.


1. Does this engine reliably start when cold?
Yes
2. Does this engine continue to run well once started?
Yes
3. Does this engine continue to run well once it gets hot with reliable power to the wheels?
Yes
4. Does this engine have trouble starting back up after it is hot? (run for a long period of time then shut down)
Yes
5. Does this engine have trouble starting back up when cold? (started normally when cold, shut down before warm up, restarted)
Yes

Hold on a second here. Are you saying that this only happens when the motor is hot? From your past descriptions, this was an issue with start up in all conditions. Now you're saying this engine will reliably start when cold?

That sound you hear is my head banging on the desk.

I'm going to ask you some yes or no questions. Please think carefully about your answers before typing your response.

1. Does this engine reliably start when cold?
2. Does this engine continue to run well once started?
3. Does this engine continue to run well once it gets hot with reliable power to the wheels?
4. Does this engine have trouble starting back up after it is hot? (run for a long period of time then shut down)
5. Does this engine have trouble starting back up when cold? (started normally when cold, shut down before warm up, restarted)

 

[jonheld]

Simple answers below.


1. Does this engine reliably start when cold?
Yes
2. Does this engine continue to run well once started?
Yes
3. Does this engine continue to run well once it gets hot with reliable power to the wheels?
Yes
4. Does this engine have trouble starting back up after it is hot? (run for a long period of time then shut down)
Yes
5. Does this engine have trouble starting back up when cold? (started normally when cold, shut down before warm up, restarted)
Yes

This all points to a fuel pressure issue.
Have you changed your fuel pressure regulator (FPR)?
Have you changed the inline fuel filter on the inside of the passenger side frame rail below the distributor?
Have you changed the fuel pump filter?

A faulty FPR usually manifests itself with hard hot starts. What happens is the fuel rail becomes over pressurized and the check valve in the fuel pump sticks closed. Page FI-47 through FI-49 in the FSM specifies fuel pressures. I would make sure you're within spec.

 

[Zeus0623]

I think current mechanic checked this. I will call him tomorrow and verify. THANK YOU!!!

This all points to a fuel pressure issue.
Have you changed your fuel pressure regulator (FPR)?
Have you changed the inline fuel filter on the inside of the passenger side frame rail below the distributor?
Have you changed the fuel pump filter?

A faulty FPR usually manifests itself with hard hot starts. What happens is the fuel rail becomes over pressurized and the check valve in the fuel pump sticks closed. Page FI-47 through FI-49 in the FSM specifies fuel pressures. I would make sure you're within spec.

 

[Zeus0623]

Hello All,

I was finally able to take the 80 to Adventure Off-Road in Boulder, CO. Robbie gave her a thorough exam, however the problem remains. He thinks a new wiring harness will fix the re-starting issue. Anyway, I am going to post her for sale and focus on my 40 and 60. Below are his notes. Will post a sale thread soon, let me know if you are interested! @jonheld

"Chris wanted me to try and find why the cruiser would not after warm and running then shutting off the cruiser. I started off by hooking up a fuel pressure gauge to see if there was any issues the pressure regulator or Injectors. What I found was one or more injectors were leaking as the pressure bleeds off rather quickly (like 15 seconds and no pressure after 1 min). I then started looking at the EFI relay. While I found the trigger voltage was 1 V lower than battery voltage. The EFI relay was engaged while cranking to have the fuel pump working while cranking. This was verified by the pressure gauge showing pressure build up and pressure maintained. I did notice that someone had replaced the power wire with a suitable wire gauge.

I had also worked with the TPS sensor, I found this to have non-consistent readings. Indicating to me it needs replacing in the future. I switched it out with a known good one, but nothing changed. I also switched out circuit breaker with a regular fuse. With no effect. For a bit, I found that pressing slightly on the throttle pedal allowed me to start the engine under certain heat conditions.

Anyhow, I then looked around the cruiser for other issues. The front axle needs servicing, The wiring harness between the upper and lower intake half’s are not routed properly, this has the harness up against air injection systems, which because they are hooked in to the head can get hot with the exhaust gasses when no air is injected. I can see the harness covering to be slightly melted. The wires under may also be showing some damage.

I see several issues with the wiring harness in the engine bay. The oil pressure gauge does not work. There are wire leads just hanging out in the air, lots of damage of the sheathing on the wires, This could lead to rub points, You have leaks on the t-case out puts on both the front and rear outputs."

 

[Zeus0623]

Link to Classified post...

For Sale - ***SOLD*** 1991 Toyota Land Cruiser

***SOLD*** 1991 Toyota Land Cruiser for sale, $4,000 OBO. Great truck that needs some TLC. I have two other Cruisers that I am focusing on, hence the sale. Runs and drives great, will not restart after operating without using starting fluid. There appears to be a grounding issue in the wiring...

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