550 / 250 or an Inoes?

[Brown98LC]

With the price of used 200s
And how expensive some 100+ older are
Honestly the 200 series is at such a sweet spot.

It's modern enough to feel modern but also old enough to cost less than many similar model older LC.
Also parts are available and don't have to worry about some parts being discontinued....and arguably it is the last big daddy toyota badged LC in the US
..for now....

 

[Jetboy]

With the price of used 200s
And how expensive some 100+ older are
Honestly the 200 series is at such a sweet spot.

It's modern enough to feel modern but also old enough to cost less than many similar model older LC.
Also parts are available and don't have to worry about some parts being discontinued....and arguably it is the last big daddy toyota badged LC in the US
..for now....

Agreed. I think we're moving into the phase of peak value for the 200 where they're still widely available used, easy to service, etc. With the new LC and GX we'll see a lot of used ones hit the market. A 150k mile LX570 for $20k is a pretty good value for someone looking for an excellent adventure wagon platform.

 

[Acrad]

Lexus LX price trends

Toyota Land Cruiser price trends

 

[Jetboy]

Would be nice if you could separate the 200 from the rest of the generations and also include a weighting for days on market.

The curve does seem to match what I see in my market. Inflation adjusted it's still higher than it was pre-covid. But it's trending back to the norm. Give it another year and I think we'll see the overall market values back to where they were adjusted for inflation and aging.

 

[Rednexus]

$30K for a used LX570 is a lot of rig for the money, considering it can't depreciate that much more (even a clapped-out one will be $15K) and it's a very capable rig with a good tow capacity (despite being too big for my trails ). For reference, investment on my GX470 is already over $30K, including $10K for the rig itself and a ton of mods.

 

[stonepa]

I thought it was only in Europe that people were inclined to DD vintage cars because many consider it chic to do so. But Scottsdale is full of gorgeous collector cars on the roads as well. I was in the Bay Area recently and the same thing is true. Saw a Speedster on the Golden Gate Bridge. I have never been to Missouri so maybe things are different there.

You'd be amazed at what people daily drive around here.

 

[Zill]

You'd be amazed at what people daily drive around here.

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Is that Homer, Alaska?

 

[stonepa]

Is that Homer, Alaska?

Yep

 

[Zill]

Yep

Love that place. Always nice to see the blue glacier on the other side of the spit on nice weather days.

 

[numby]

It's actually way less than $60k starting price in Japan. Base model is $32,343 USD.

Toyota Re-introduces the Land Cruiser "70" in Japan | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website - https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/40139890.html (base MSRP is at the bottom).

A base model lc76 with the 2.8L diesel for $33k would sell faster than they could ever supply them in the USA market.

I don't really think that's true. If there was a market for a stripped down 76 wagon then wouldn't Toyota start making it here? Or bring it in? Instead we're getting a Prado. The 250 is still made in Japan and subject to the same tariffs and no one is complaining. Toyota has deep pockets and could easily jump through the regulatory hoops if they wanted to. There must be a bigger profit margin in a 250 v a 76 I guess.

Australia prices are inclusive of a lot of taxes and fees that wouldn't normally be part of MSRP.

Aussie prices for a 76 start at almost $50K USD. More than that in South Africa. White paint and no lockers.

 

[malden]

A base model lc76 with the 2.8L diesel for $33k would sell faster than they could ever supply them in the USA market.

So Toyota could put $10K per unit into crash testing/EPA whatever for US regs and still come in at a price of an SR5 4Runner ($43K?).

The 70 would sell in Europe for $33K or $43K, and unlike the States, we have had 70s for ages, like it, and the 2.8l is a nice engine. So what is the problem Toyota? Is it supply?

Americans might like their comfort more than a $33K series 70 could afford them, but we would live with and love it in Europe where our driving environment is much different.

And yes, in Europe we have a far broader range of options packages and models in the Prado range as compared to what you have gotten in the US with the LC.....there is generally a very bare base model at a convenient entry price. Looks like the 250 is headed in that direction now.

 

[M1911]

O.K. What we've learned in the past few posts is that those who drive a SFA are posing and I'm supposing that M1911, actually has very little experience driving a SFA vehicle.

I’ve driven SFA vehicles. They suck on the road compared to IFS vehicles and most of us spend 99% of our time on the road.

And, yes, I’ve taken my IFS off-road in CO.

Is a SFA better if you are doing Rubicon? Yeah, probably. How many of us actually do that?

It seems to me the pain of driving a SFA isn’t worth whatever psychic boost some people get from posing in the Costco parking lot.

 

[M1911]

So Toyota could put $10K per unit into crash testing/EPA whatever for US regs and still come in at a price of an SR5 4Runner ($43K?).

Nope. The 70 Series wouldn’t just need crash testing to be sold in the US — it would need a redesign. The last time the 70 Series got a redesign was when it was initially designed in the first place — that is, Toyota has never given it a full redesign.

Furthermore, the 70 Series still has the problem that the rear track width is narrower than the front. So if you are on a soft surface, the rear gets squirrely as first one wheel and then the other slides into the rut from the front tire. The Aussies have two different solutions. The cheap and lousy solution is to buy different offset rear wheels. The downside, of course, is that your spare will either match the front or the rear. The expensive and better solution is to replace the rear axle entirely with an aftermarket axle that matches the front track width, but that is $$$$.

The 70 Series has its strengths but it has drawbacks as well that folks with rose colored glasses pining for what they can’t have don’t seem to understand.

Also, Toyota will not bring a diesel to the US.

 

[M1911]

Unless Toyota brings the 70 series to the US - which is never happening

Agreed. That will never happen.

Ineos has done a pretty good job of giving you what you're asking for. Not perfect.

I saw a YouTube video of a side by side off-road test of 300 vs Patrol vs Ineos. They also had another suv but I can’t remember which one. The Ineos had, by far, the worst tuned traction control of the lot. It was truly bad compared to the other vehicles.

 

[M1911]

That's all I drive. SO much easier to diagnose issues and do repairs. Cheaper too. They handle just fine on the highway. Ask any full-sized HD pickup driver. I

We have a very different definition of handling and riding “just fine” on the highway. IFS rides and handles better than SFA. There is simply no way around it. I’ve got 200k miles in IFS Toyota SUVs and have yet to do anything to the front end other than a set of shocks. This idea that Toyota IFS is somehow repair intensive is simply false.

 

[Rednexus]

And, yes, I’ve taken my IFS off-road in CO.

We drove our 2014 Outback up to the American Basin with 7K miles on it. We took it slow and steady and were passed by everything else on the trail. No issues despite IFS and IRS when the right line was picked. We also did a number of trails around Silverton and Ouray in my GX with stock suspension. Zero issues other than scrapes on the skids. I'm looking forward to heading back this year with a much more built rig.

I'm not sure what folks are doing to be breaking Toyota IFS components with any regularity, but it's been a non-issue for me. Regarding ease of service, when I lifted my rig, I replaced the entire front suspension on a Friday after bugging out of work early, including cutting out the LCA cam tabs. Honestly, the rear 5 link was more of a pain to refresh due to how constricted the area around the UCAs is.

 

[M1911]

We drove our 2014 Outback up to the American Basin with 7K miles on it. We took it slow and steady and were passed by everything else on the trail. No issues despite IFS and IRS when the right line was picked. We also did a number of trails around Silverton and Ouray in my GX with stock suspension. Zero issues other than scrapes on the skids. I'm looking forward to heading back this year with a much more built rig.

At one LCDC, we went up an easy trail near Breckenridge on the first day. On the way down, we passed an Outback on the way up. After we passed the Outback, we passed a line of Wranglers (mostly two-doors) on their way up. Every one was lifted and it looked like most were on 35s. One our 200s was bone stock (including tires). My 200 was almost stock, just 33” KO2s. And, of course, the stock Outback made it as well. But those built Wranglers sure looked tough, ROFL.

I'm not sure what folks are doing to be breaking Toyota IFS components with any regularity, but it's been a non-issue for me.

I’m right there with you. Beats the heck out of me.

 

[M1911]

I would always prefer SFA in a Land Cruiser, and would have with the 250/300. The switch to IFS with the 100 series is to this day still a damn shame. Interstate driving is not why I own Land Cruisers. I have another car for that.

I’m in Boston. The mountains are in CO. There is a lot of interstate between me and the mountains. Furthermore, my 200 is my daily driver, not a toy that I only use on the weekend.

 

[Jetboy]

I don't really think that's true. If there was a market for a stripped down 76 wagon then wouldn't Toyota start making it here? Or bring it in? Instead we're getting a Prado. The 250 is still made in Japan and subject to the same tariffs and no one is complaining. Toyota has deep pockets and could easily jump through the regulatory hoops if they wanted to. There must be a bigger profit margin in a 250 v a 76 I guess.



Aussie prices for a 76 start at almost $50K USD. More than that in South Africa. White paint and no lockers.

I don't think the LC76 would be importable as it is sold in Japan. The 2.8L diesel would not meet USA emissions standards. It probably would work with a 1GR or T24A. Might be cheaper to produce the 1GR. And it likely would not meet a variety of other FMVSS rules, but I don't all of them. I can't imagine it would do well on things like crash test. But - those could probably all be fixed.

Toyota doesn't have the manufacturing capacity to sell the LC70 in the markets it has now. My understanding is that they are still made in a pretty old production style that isn't something Toyota wants to scale up. I'm not sure why Toyota wouldn't consider increasing capacity though unless it sees higher margins in other products. And Toyota also sells the 4Runner that is the vehicle for the USA market that fits that price point as close as possible with roughly similar utility for how most Americans would use them.

But - I still think that they'd sell like crazy if they could offer that in the USA for $35k. At least for a few years. Nothing in that price range comes close other than maybe an SR or SR5 Tacoma and the SR Tundra starts high $30's IIRC.

 

[M1911]

I learned to drive a manual 1960 Falcon. It was redone by 1986. the 389 was smooth and the Hurst 4 speed was awesome. Rough go for the first few startups. That was a race car, compared to my 1971 Cutlass Supreme.

The next car I drove was a 1971 full-size Ford station wagon. That car had originally been owned by the Red Cross and it was a stripper. It had a V8, but it was anemic. The steering wheel seemed to influence roll more than yaw. What a giant piece of junk. The next 15 years of vehicles from Detroit were even worse.