4WD Toyota Owner magazine Project FZJ80 pics

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lcwizard said:
first a lesson in four link geometry.
draw an imaginary line along your upper and lower rear four links. the forward point they intersect dictates the imaginary point that forward momentum is transfered to the vehicle. all competition rock crawlers and buggies aim for the vicinity of the motor mount. the lower the point the better the vehicle will climb serious obstacles. in a climb your truck already unloads the front end and doesn't need the rear end making the situation worse.
another scenario is approaching vertical ledges, say 3/4 your tire hieght or more.
with steep control arm angles torque reaction forces the ass end of the truck upward as the axle tries to drive under the truck without you.
maybe your wheeling style isn't severe enough the take advantage of the performance gains of a correctly setup four link in which case you are free to compromise. however after years or competing in the rock crawling circles and
involvement in their build up , i can say with confidence that an inproper fou link setup has no advantage over leaf springs and may function worse.
As for the front end the brackets merely allow lift without compromising street handling
Click to expand...

Great info. Thanks for the post. I learned some new stuff.

Dave
 
Are you serious? Is that supposed to address the points folks brought up about clearance, breakover, etc. How can you not understand the comments? Folks think the brackets are too low and will catch on larger rocks. Folks think the brackets are too low and compromise breakover clearance too much.

As someone already mentioned, most of the drop brackets are for a whole other focus on off-roading or even more so nowaday, just street poseurs that want to run big tires.

Folks (like me) just want to see someone with this setup wheel it in some rocks, ledges, etc. where no matter what you are running pretty much everything under your truck is coming in contact with some rocks - some bigger than others. It seems like the pitch is that those brackets won't do that or that they will "slide" over the rocks. So post up.

yellowchaosfj80 said:
:flipoff2: I have the MAF kit with the slee 6"springs and 37s and love it..... I don't under stand the negative thoughts around this kit ..... ALL the major 4x4 companies kits are drop bracks in design... this is the frist time on an 80 .... Don't knock it tell you try it......
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lcwiz, the front is not a four-link, no?

I still agree with the design behavior you're describing, but it still doesn't address the nature of hanging up on low-hanging brackets. Most rock buggies also have a full belly-pan and narry a bolt to hang up on underneath.

And it is still the case, that if you are touting the "proper" set up then those brackets are static and only hit the mark for one lift height, right?

I'm NOT knocking the design and product, I just want to see how it overcomes what APPEARS to be some real-world use questions. :cheers:

lcwizard said:
first a lesson in four link geometry.
draw an imaginary line along your upper and lower rear four links. the forward point they intersect dictates the imaginary point that forward momentum is transfered to the vehicle. all competition rock crawlers and buggies aim for the vicinity of the motor mount. the lower the point the better the vehicle will climb serious obstacles. in a climb your truck already unloads the front end and doesn't need the rear end making the situation worse.
another scenario is approaching vertical ledges, say 3/4 your tire hieght or more.
with steep control arm angles torque reaction forces the ass end of the truck upward as the axle tries to drive under the truck without you.
maybe your wheeling style isn't severe enough the take advantage of the performance gains of a correctly setup four link in which case you are free to compromise. however after years or competing in the rock crawling circles and
involvement in their build up , i can say with confidence that an inproper fou link setup has no advantage over leaf springs and may function worse.
As for the front end the brackets merely allow lift without compromising street handling
Click to expand...
 
Is your 80 jet black? If so--killer paint scheme!

Dave
Click to expand...

Thanks!! It's black and steel gray....you know one of those pink pantie rigs:princess: Actually it is one of the few paint jobs you can get in the lx450 and lx470 today. I really didn't want black at first but love it now and think it looks nice with all the black accessories.:cheers: :flipoff2:
 
Tools R Us said:
A couple of pix of Spike's very effective unit.
Click to expand...

:eek:

-Spike
 
4WD Toyota Owner Magazine said:
The most interesting is yours, LR-RESQ--that would be a good test. let's try to arrange something, heck just to wheel as well as comparing the two systems.

Until then, keep on guessing--yours is as good as mine:grinpimp:

Dave
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Sounds good to me! I'm ready anytime. I will PM you and your equally effective suspension system...:cheers:
 
clarkrw3 said:
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Here is my 6" with 315's :cheers:
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HIJACK:

BMW's and Land Cruisers! Sounds awfully familiar! :D Nice rides! (DINAN 5 myself)

:ENDHIJACK
 
4WD Toyota Owner Magazine said:
Lots of great theories and conjecture on performance!

Have any of you actually wheeled with someone with this kit--just curious--and confirmed all the negative theories being put out there? Some are helpful in terms of things that I want to test this weekend. Some I am noting and will try to get pics of.

All questions will be answered this next weekend, then written fully in the Mar/April issue. I can tell it's going to be carefully scrutinized!

The most interesting is yours, LR-RESQ--that would be a good test. let's try to arrange something, heck just to wheel as well as comparing the two systems.

Until then, keep on guessing--yours is as good as mine:grinpimp:

Dave
Click to expand...

First of all you don't need to be some sort of genius to come to the conclusion that lack of clearance will result in more dragging.

Second, I don't have any questions that need answering, especially by some rag.
 
landtank said:
First of all you don't need to be some sort of genius to come to the conclusion that lack of clearance will result in more dragging.

Second, I don't have any questions that need answering, especially by some rag.
Click to expand...


:popcorn:
 
the front is not a four link, rather radius arms w/ panhard. like ford stuff.
setup measurements always reflect static. the drop length represents factory positions at a 4'' lift. 4" was chosen as a starting point because i felt 2"-3" lift
was tolerable without brackets, but there are those running 6" lift or more.
there is some point you absolutely cannot go beyond without drop brackets unless
you never drive it
 
lcwizard said:
....
there is some point you absolutely cannot go beyond without drop brackets unless
you never drive it
Click to expand...

Did you mean;

there is some point you absolutely cannot go beyond without addressing the angles unless you never drive it

There are other ways to fix the angles, I would prefer raising the mount points on the axles to lowering the frame points. The frame and axle mount points on both ends hang down too far in the stock configuration for my liking. :cheers:
 
Wrench said:
4WD, You can't slide a 6000+ rig across a rock.Those drop brackets will stick like glue on the rocks.
Click to expand...

bullhawkey, anything will slide with enough leverage or force. you may not like the results though.
 
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it's great that we have vendors who design and sell new toys for us!
it's great to see folks trying these new things and reporting on them!
it's great that we can have different opinions!
it's great that we are a community where everybody stays civil and nice and discuss things reasonably!
 
Dave,
One thing not mentioned and would like you to check out while wheeling on the rocks is the lateral play and flex.
With the drop brackets, you have more leverage on the mounting points and you also double the amount of mounting points. It would be good to see how the lift handles long term use and if the additional sideways leverage has any downside.

yellowchaos,
I think Clownmidget is talking about ROCK GARDENS not a rock in the middle of a flat trail. Some good rock gardens would be a convincing test for sure.

Anyway, it will be good to see how it performs from 4wdOM perspective and also other owners.

I have seen the Slee 6 perform at the Rubicon and know this is a very good rock wagon setup.
 
I don't need to drive your truck to know it won't perform well. I have wheeled my 80 for awhile now so I know how it handles on the rocks. If I did wheel you truck the drop brackets would be all smashed up. Come wheel Paragon you'll see how inferior the MAF kit is. Slee's is better IMHO.
 
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