3B won't start, or even fire

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I was able to try/verify a few things over the weekend. Still no smoke/starting. Here are a few tests/observations:
- Verified that voltage dropped when I powered the glow plugs (analog, but from ~13 to ~10V)
- Verified I had fuel to the injectors
- engine fired up with a small squirt of starting fluid so it's definitely fuel
- I removed the glow plugs and cranked it. I see poofs of something shooting out of the glow plug holes. I assume that's atomized diesel. How can I confirm - thought about trying to ignite it, but not sure whether that would blow up or something since it's atomized. Thoughts?
- I had all of my injectors rebuilt and calibrated a couple of years ago and have <500 miles on it since then. I do own an injector pressure tester and can remove them and test all of them. I would prefer to confirm whether it's diesel that's shooting out of the glow plug holes before doing that
- I don't have an EDIC, use a PTO cable and have verified the position of the fuel arm

Any thoughts for next steps?

Thanks all for your suggestions to date.
 
then its only timing or somehow the edic replcement apparatus, if your trouble shooting is sound
 
bj70bc said:
then its only timing or somehow the edic replcement apparatus, if your trouble shooting is sound
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I removed the EDIC 4 years ago when I started this project, it was completely frozen. The IP was out, but reinstalled 2 1/2 years ago and the cruiser has been running pretty good since then.

I did replace the vacuum lines from the intake to the IP a couple of months before the engine starting shutting down. Maybe a leak on one side could be preventing the fuel rail from opening? If I remove both vacuum lines, that should tell the IP that the throttle plate is wide open, correct? I might try that.
 
Diesel Wannabe said:
I removed the EDIC 4 years ago when I started this project, it was completely frozen. The IP was out, but reinstalled 2 1/2 years ago and the cruiser has been running pretty good since then.

I did replace the vacuum lines from the intake to the IP a couple of months before the engine starting shutting down. Maybe a leak on one side could be preventing the fuel rail from opening? If I remove both vacuum lines, that should tell the IP that the throttle plate is wide open, correct? I might try that.
Click to expand...

With either, or both, of the vacuum hoses from the throttle body to the injection pump removed the pump defaults to Max Fuel.. not "no fuel".

I would still be looking at your glow system... as per previous post, what voltage drop are you seeing when the Glow Operation is in progress?
 
duncanrm said:
With either, or both, of the vacuum hoses from the throttle body to the injection pump removed the pump defaults to Max Fuel.. not "no fuel".

I would still be looking at your glow system... as per previous post, what voltage drop are you seeing when the Glow Operation is in progress?
Click to expand...
Per my above post, it's analog but ~13 down to ~10 volts with the glow plugs activated
 
Diesel Wannabe said:
Per my above post, it's analog but ~13 down to ~10 volts with the glow plugs activated
Click to expand...

Thanks I missed this.

Can you get a digital measurement by any chance.. that's a higher drop than anticipated if true - there's a fine line, you want to see a drop BUT you dont want to see a drop that suggests that the battery is shagged.. my telltale indicator is a bit more than a 1V drop - that recovers to about 0.6V drop after the plugs are good 'n hot. Obviously if the battery is capable of a good solid cranking effort you can rule this out.

With the EDIC rod disconnected, a known good glow system, compression and some evidence of fuel delivery there's nothing else that will stop a 3B starting if the injection pump hasnt been off.. if you pulled the glows and cranked it, you'd know very quickly if all cylinders are getting fuel.
 
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You've pulled and checked your glowplugs for ohms?

Apologies if this has already been discussed. I just skimmed through this thread.
 
A healthy 3b will start without functioning glow plugs, it just won’t be happy. This of course depends on the ambient temperature. My experience has been if it’s above 10 Celsius and you have a good battery it will start, as long as engine compression is good, and his is.
If it coughs on starter fluid it’s a fuel problem.
 
fjbj40 said:
A healthy 3b will start without functioning glow plugs,
Click to expand...

How long do you have to crank it for? A 2H can take about 15-20seconds in cooler weather before it starts to cough into life.
 
I think a video of it cranking might be useful.
 
duncanrm said:
How long do you have to crank it for? A 2H can take about 15-20seconds in cooler weather before it starts to cough into life.
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Depends how cool it is, but about that long,
sometimes longer. It doesn’t like it but it will come to life.
 
Update.

I'm attaching a couple of videos.
  • 1st one shows cranking without the glow plugs installed. This looks like fuel confirmation to me.
  • 2nd one is cranking with everything buttoned up (58 F, 15 C here in North Carolina today) - did not even attempt to fire up
In terms of the glow plugs, I do have some concerns:
  • 1 and 2 measure .9 ohms on the bench
  • 3 and 4 measure .3 ohms on the bench
  • Voltage drops from 12.6 to 10.55v when GPs are installed and I engage momentary switch
  • I only measure .1 ohms from the GP rail to groun (4 plugs in parallel)
  • I have burned through several sets of GPs over the few years that I've been running this setup - just a momentary switch through a relay.
  • Plugs are NGK172751, my 3B is a 12v version out of a 1985 Canadian BJ70

Thoughts. And, thanks again.

Adding Links:


 
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crank up your thumb throttle 4 or 5 turns and try again
get the wifes hairdryer (heat guns prob a better idea 😅 ) and blast that intake hole for 15 min, ( with flap open) try again
 
No manual throttle knob on the dash?
And whats this jug im seeing in the picture?

Id be priming the diesel pump too before starting.... pump it till you feel resistance, just for good measure
push the fuel pedal down a bit if you dont have the thumb throttle, preheat the intake tract with the heat gun to simulate working glows.
If it wont fire it *has* to be your timing or edic replacement apparatus....(grain of salt rule... im not there looking at it)
 
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Battery is fine.. your glow system sounds like its probably working, you appear to have fuel, the compression sounds good on the video.

I'd try some starter fluid.. and report back.
 
@bj70bc - the jug is diesel fuel feeding the IP. I wanted to eliminate any fuel delivery issues just to be sure. I'll try heating the intake, but it may be Friday before I can get back at it. IP hasn't been out in years, and I'm not sure how it can be my EDIC replacement (PTO linkage) since I'm getting diesel shooting out of the GP holes when I have them out. I am truly stumped. I must be doing something really dumb that I'll curse myself when I realize it.

@duncanrm - I've done starter fluid and it fires right up. See earlier in the thread.
 
Odd.. does the diesel actually smell and look like diesel?
 
How long have you let it crank for?
 
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