- Thread starter
- #61
Not sure, but it's 80 F here in NC today
3B won't start, or even fire
- Thread starter Diesel Wannabe
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- Thread starter
- #62
Update from some testing today.
I used a vacuum/handheld pump to put some pressure into the fuel feed system (disconnected the line coming from the water separator). The system would not hold pressure, I'm pretty sure I could hear air escaping under pressure, but couldn't isolate it. I then added some UV fuel dye to the line and used the 3B hand pump to try and bleed the system, still getting a lot of air. After getting fuel to the filter, I again gave the system a little pressure with the hand pump. I see blue (UV reaction with the special light & glasses) at 2 places:
I used a vacuum/handheld pump to put some pressure into the fuel feed system (disconnected the line coming from the water separator). The system would not hold pressure, I'm pretty sure I could hear air escaping under pressure, but couldn't isolate it. I then added some UV fuel dye to the line and used the 3B hand pump to try and bleed the system, still getting a lot of air. After getting fuel to the filter, I again gave the system a little pressure with the hand pump. I see blue (UV reaction with the special light & glasses) at 2 places:
- At the hose to crimp connection on the banjo feed line up to the filter (bottom end). I had this one built at a hydraulic shop last year as I couldn't find an OEM one - are there any sources for these?
- I see a thin blue line where the 3B hand pump body bolts to the block. Looks like the diesel must be getting past that internal seal. I did rebuild the entire 3B hand pump assembly a couple of months ago as part of efforts to isolate the leak. Should I rebuild it again? If fuel gets past the 3B hand pump assembly does that mean it's getting into the oil?
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- #64
I've already moved on from the Bosch and am using an all metal Toyota pump. All banjo washers are new and show no leaks.
hmmm
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- #66
I'm still down/stuck without a solution. I replaced the lift pump (yes, all new banjo washers) and have tried different hand pumps (all metal Toyota, Bosch). I am currently getting fuel to all injectors but it just won't start. Injectors have been rebuilt, and I've driven ~300 miles on them. I am getting suspicious of injector pump. Maybe it sat too long and is now degrading. It's the inline model from a '85 BJ70. Are there any tests I can do in my garage or do I need to pull it and ship it off?
Any other thoughts?
Any other thoughts?
Do the hand pump air pressure test again this time spray soapy water all over all the connections up to the pump and all over the pump.
@Diesel Wannabe I haven’t read all the way back to get a refresher, but have you tried a little starting fluid to see if it tries to run?
Get the “safe” starting fluid and only use a little.
Get the “safe” starting fluid and only use a little.
When you use the starting fluid, don't use the glow plugs or grid heater or anything else it might have to heat the air. Practice before you spray. You only need a "Sniff" of it in the motor to tell you whether you have compression or not. You'll know if you didn't use enough, it will hit the starter harder than normal cranking but won't knock or light off. If you use too much, it will clank or knock loudly and may fire up, but it's going to make a racket of noise.
If it fires up and dies, your injector pump isn't working.
Make sure the fuel shutoff mechanism is operating properly. Whatever type it has, you may need to inspect all the parts to make sure it didn't jam or gum up. Injection pumps don't normally just "die" and not run at all unless you shear a key or a bolt or they fall apart internally. If it was running when you shut it off, just reverse the process of shutting it down and inspect each component. If you had air, the only way to get it out is to bleed the lines by cranking the motor till it squirts out of the loosened fittings at the injectors. You can air-lock a pump, but normally they will clear themselves unless you are still sucking air. Try pinching off the fuel return line when you aren't trying to start the motor, just in case it is sucking air backward through the system due to gravity pulling the fuel to the lowest part (tank).
If it fires up and dies, your injector pump isn't working.
Make sure the fuel shutoff mechanism is operating properly. Whatever type it has, you may need to inspect all the parts to make sure it didn't jam or gum up. Injection pumps don't normally just "die" and not run at all unless you shear a key or a bolt or they fall apart internally. If it was running when you shut it off, just reverse the process of shutting it down and inspect each component. If you had air, the only way to get it out is to bleed the lines by cranking the motor till it squirts out of the loosened fittings at the injectors. You can air-lock a pump, but normally they will clear themselves unless you are still sucking air. Try pinching off the fuel return line when you aren't trying to start the motor, just in case it is sucking air backward through the system due to gravity pulling the fuel to the lowest part (tank).
- Thread starter
- #70
Progress report.
- 2 days ago I was able to fire it up with two bumps of starting fluid. It then idled for 10 minutes and I took it for a test ride, just a couple of blocks. It would restart normally while it was still hot. I found a fuel leak in the injector return pipe hose and added a new clamp there.
- 1 day ago - still wouldn't start with glows and diesel (I do see a 1.5-2v drop while glowing, also it was 82 F degrees outside, maybe 28 C). Again, 2 shots of starting fluid and I was again running. Took it on a slightly longer ride.
Good news is that the fuel seems to be holding overnight without letting in air. Bad news is that I'm having a hard time starting, despite good compression (395, 390, 380, 400). Another note/symptom - I am getting white smoke (too much fuel I believe). This is with a turbo that is pumping lots of air. Since I use a PTO cable as a cutoff, I tried to ween it off a bit to get a cleaner burn, but no luck.
I did have the IP off about 18 months ago to change the diaphragm. Does this sound like an IP timing issue? I'm thinking that it may be retarded - hard starts and white smoke. I should rotate it towards the engine a bit to advance the injection timing, correct? Thoughts?
- 2 days ago I was able to fire it up with two bumps of starting fluid. It then idled for 10 minutes and I took it for a test ride, just a couple of blocks. It would restart normally while it was still hot. I found a fuel leak in the injector return pipe hose and added a new clamp there.
- 1 day ago - still wouldn't start with glows and diesel (I do see a 1.5-2v drop while glowing, also it was 82 F degrees outside, maybe 28 C). Again, 2 shots of starting fluid and I was again running. Took it on a slightly longer ride.
Good news is that the fuel seems to be holding overnight without letting in air. Bad news is that I'm having a hard time starting, despite good compression (395, 390, 380, 400). Another note/symptom - I am getting white smoke (too much fuel I believe). This is with a turbo that is pumping lots of air. Since I use a PTO cable as a cutoff, I tried to ween it off a bit to get a cleaner burn, but no luck.
I did have the IP off about 18 months ago to change the diaphragm. Does this sound like an IP timing issue? I'm thinking that it may be retarded - hard starts and white smoke. I should rotate it towards the engine a bit to advance the injection timing, correct? Thoughts?
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White smoke and hard starts CAN be an indication of the timing being off.
You need to set the timing to stock at first to see if it changes behavior at all.
However since you have a turbo 3B, people tend to retard the timing on IDI engines when they turbo them.
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- #72
The timing is at the stock marks. Given the compression numbers I have and the hard start/white smoke, do you have a more likely cause for that behavior that I can look into?
The correct way to check the timing is to spill time it off the #1 line on the pump.
Does this white smoke go away when the engine warms up?
Still feels like an air leak issue.