There is simply no getting around unsprung weight. IFS will always have better ride and handling than a solid front axle.
2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion
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Not disagreeing at all but...
But what if it weren't an option? What if Toyota just made the Wrangler competitor that the LC250 was alleged to be when it was first announced? About every 3rd vehicle on the road around here is a Wrangler. Half of those are running 35's or lager. Probably less than 10% actually see dirt. Broncos and jacked up 3/4 ton trucks also make up a large portion of vehicles on the road.
Maybe it's a regional thing and not seen across the country, but there is certainly a market for the "hardcore off roader" or at least the perception there of. I think this perception plays into the psychology of vehicle sales every bit as much as ride quality. People seems perfectly happy to spend their money on a loud, rough riding, solid axle 4x4 when a crossover or sedan would be a more practical choice.
I'm also not sure I agree that a solid front axle means poor handling and ride quality. As an example, Land Rover did fine for many years with solid axle Discoveries and Range Rovers.
I understand the whole global platform thing and the logic in engineering and manufacturing, but it's left us with what will be 3 versions of the 4Runner by 2025. The LC250 is cool, but there is nothing exciting about it for me.
I also fully recognize that I'm and enthusiast and Toyota hates me.
EDIT to add: IFS isn't the only be of the world, but I do believe Toyota could have done better to set the LC250 apart.
Toyota's positioning is better for overall sales than going straight after the Wrangler. The vast majority of Wrangler buyers are buying them for image, and not off roading. Bronco is doing very well, while Wrangler sales are softening because the ride quality and on road behavior of the Bronco is much superior to the wrangler. The Land Cruiser will probably be even more refined on road than the Bronco and will sell like hotcakes due to the legendary nameplate. Off road use is very niche, and many true off roaders buy used vehicles to bang up....so not the target demographic for Toyota. The crowd that likes to jack up vehicles to the point that they are unstable on or off road is also not the target demographic for Toyota, because many of these individuals will not consider Asian nameplates for various reasons.
A live front axle may have been acceptable in higher end vehicles back in 2000, but the lack of refinement would not go over will in a $55k-70k vehicle in 2023.
I dearly hope the US gets an lx6 overtrail. I’m already on a list for one should it come. I however am that niche buyer that this appeals to.
On my phone but what I can tell an official Toyota release of design sketches. I can remove later if not.
global.toyota
Thought a few of these were cool. They are certainly designing these with customization in mind. Modular fender and seperate bumper design for aftermarket options.
Really liking this front end, Maybe they ditch the round lights for this LOL. Maybe it's because I'm getting a bit of 80 series vibe off this one?
Lots of wide body flares in the designs. Maybe already in production? Along with the snorkel?
Couple jabs at the defender storage thingy. Maybe a taste of the first edition?
Integrated ladder in the rear hatch or old school tail gate have your vote? Thinking the hybrid option had something to do with killing this off.
40's on your 250 anyone?
Many more including interior design.
Chief designer with a 60 series upbringing. Looks to be the death of the retro 80 lol. Kind of explains the design anyway.
Land Cruiser "250" Design Sketches | Toyota Design | Toyota Brand | Mobility | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website
Introducing design sketches for the new Land Cruiser "250". Combining heritage with modern style, the design keywords are Reliable, Timeless and Professional, to create something that will be trusted and cherished, with sophisticated functional beauty useful even on the job.
Really liking this front end, Maybe they ditch the round lights for this LOL. Maybe it's because I'm getting a bit of 80 series vibe off this one?
Lots of wide body flares in the designs. Maybe already in production? Along with the snorkel?
Couple jabs at the defender storage thingy. Maybe a taste of the first edition?
Integrated ladder in the rear hatch or old school tail gate have your vote? Thinking the hybrid option had something to do with killing this off.
40's on your 250 anyone?
Many more including interior design.
Chief designer with a 60 series upbringing. Looks to be the death of the retro 80 lol. Kind of explains the design anyway.
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Solid Axles??!?!
At some point we need to be realistic. Toyota hasn't put development dollars into a solid axle land cruiser since the they finished the engineering on the 80 series, a vehicle that debuted in 1989.
At some point we need to be realistic. Toyota hasn't put development dollars into a solid axle land cruiser since the they finished the engineering on the 80 series, a vehicle that debuted in 1989.
I am not entirely sure when or if there ever was a claim that this was a Bronco/Wrangler competitor other than wish fulfillment attempts from the 2024 FJ40 crowd.
Your best bet is a new FJ Cruiser, but I don't know with that EV in the wings.
You may well be correct. That may be be wishful thinking that turn into urban legend during the course of this thread.
Would you need dual snorkels on the Hybrid 4 like the TTV6?On my phone but what I can tell an official Toyota release of design sketches. I can remove later if not.
Thought a few of these were cool. They are certainly designing these with customization in mind. Modular fender and seperate bumper design for aftermarket options.Land Cruiser "250" Design Sketches | Toyota Design | Toyota Brand | Mobility | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website
Introducing design sketches for the new Land Cruiser "250". Combining heritage with modern style, the design keywords are Reliable, Timeless and Professional, to create something that will be trusted and cherished, with sophisticated functional beauty useful even on the job.
View attachment 3393484
Really liking this front end, Maybe they ditch the round lights for this LOL. Maybe it's because I'm getting a bit of 80 series vibe off this one?
View attachment 3393485
Lots of wide body flares in the designs. Maybe already in production? Along with the snorkel?
View attachment 3393487
Couple jabs at the defender storage thingy. Maybe a taste of the first edition?
View attachment 3393488
Integrated ladder in the rear hatch or old school tail gate have your vote? Thinking the hybrid option had something to do with killing this off.
View attachment 3393489
40's on your 250 anyone?
View attachment 3393490
Many more including interior design.
Chief designer with a 60 series upbringing. Looks to be the death of the retro 80 lol. Kind of explains the design anyway.
View attachment 3393492
I saw this a while back posted by one of the Nissan designers
Unlikely it'll ever happen
But imagine a modern day y60 Patrol design inspired Patrol sold in the US to compete with the lc250?
The y61 is still sold today in some countries but will be discontinued soon from the Middle East.
Unlikely it'll ever happen
But imagine a modern day y60 Patrol design inspired Patrol sold in the US to compete with the lc250?
The y61 is still sold today in some countries but will be discontinued soon from the Middle East.
Pretty sure its a single turbo.
The early info was that the GX was going straight at the G wagon. Obviously that's not realy the case. I don't think anyone expected to have second 4runner. And the rumor was heritage. So, I think the most likely outcome was a bronco competitor. Now it looks like 2 4runners.
Very cool. Bummer that most of those ideas didn't make it to production. One of the best design features in the bronco is the true modular body. Especially the easy bolt on rear fenders. For folks who are going to really go play hard, front and rear fenders are going to be damaged in the rocks and they're super expensive to replace. It's the most expensive place to crash and Ford turned it into an easy cheap fix. Maybe we'll see those features end up on the 4R or a new FJ cruiser.On my phone but what I can tell an official Toyota release of design sketches. I can remove later if not.
Thought a few of these were cool. They are certainly designing these with customization in mind. Modular fender and seperate bumper design for aftermarket options.Land Cruiser "250" Design Sketches | Toyota Design | Toyota Brand | Mobility | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website
Introducing design sketches for the new Land Cruiser "250". Combining heritage with modern style, the design keywords are Reliable, Timeless and Professional, to create something that will be trusted and cherished, with sophisticated functional beauty useful even on the job.
View attachment 3393484
Really liking this front end, Maybe they ditch the round lights for this LOL. Maybe it's because I'm getting a bit of 80 series vibe off this one?
View attachment 3393485
Lots of wide body flares in the designs. Maybe already in production? Along with the snorkel?
View attachment 3393487
Couple jabs at the defender storage thingy. Maybe a taste of the first edition?
View attachment 3393488
Integrated ladder in the rear hatch or old school tail gate have your vote? Thinking the hybrid option had something to do with killing this off.
View attachment 3393489
40's on your 250 anyone?
View attachment 3393490
Many more including interior design.
Chief designer with a 60 series upbringing. Looks to be the death of the retro 80 lol. Kind of explains the design anyway.
View attachment 3393492
Pura Vida
What an absolute noob
That is the one other 4x4 that I have a special place for. Amazing vehicles. My dad had a few y61 patrols overseas, and they were great. Wish we got them here when the 100 series was being sold. 1000x better than whatever renault crap Nissans we get in the states.
Man you are obsessed with calling people betas. First it was people with single piece top opening tailgates and now this. Try expanding your gimmick.
Single intake so only one snorkel needed
To be fair the tb48de on the Y61 is a legend in its ownright and I would rather have it with that engine. The amount of insane hp/mods they got out of that engine over the past 20 years in the Middle East is insane.
I still prefer the 1FZ-FE on the LC100 though and LC100 in general but it is out of production so I guess that's an invalid comparison now...
Sadly the Patrol Y61 is going out of production soon for the Middle East market, not sure about the other markets but that is truly a loss of a legend.
I seriously am considering picking one of the final versions up if that truly does happen, can you imagine how expensive these will get in a few years? They sold a lot of them but they also sold an insane amount of 100s and the clean ones are pretty expensive now here.
It is sad that the Patrol name means pretty much nothing in the US but it truly is legendary.
I think they sold a few patrols in the US 50 years ago? then dropped it.
Imagine if they never stopped? I reckon a decent percentage of the guys on mud saying the 80 series is the best LC ever made would be driving Patrols lol.
You guys get the armada now that is based on the y62 Patrol just minus the rear locker and off road stuff I guess but yeah definitely not gonna be viewed the same way as the OG patrols.
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I’ve let this stew in my brain and I like the shape of it and the configurations, I just wish there was a non-hybrid option that gave a third row in the USA market.
That’s the real bummer as a parent that needs those extra seats vs taking two cars everywhere.
Same issue with the sequoia they released. It has a third row but because it sits on the battery and over the solid axel.
I’m not a fan of this hybrid only trend in SUVs.
That’s the real bummer as a parent that needs those extra seats vs taking two cars everywhere.
Same issue with the sequoia they released. It has a third row but because it sits on the battery and over the solid axel.
I’m not a fan of this hybrid only trend in SUVs.
I'm in the same boat - but I actually like the hybrids, just don't like the 3rd row compromises
GX550? Grand Highlander? Sienna? Tahoe!?
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