1971 In-Tank Fuel Pump/EFI Questions (newb)

[anthonyc]

I'm considering installing a Holley Sniper carb sometime down the road. However, right now I have the tank drained for cleaning and maintenance (hard cracked fuel lines, internal cleaning, etc). I would love to take this opportunity to install an in-tank fuel pump, possibly this Holley pump recommended by redline, and just leave it sitting there for future use.

1. Can I install a fuel pump in this older style tank? (I assume yes, but all examples I have found are later years with different vent lines)
2. If so, do all the stock vent lines, vapor tank etc still get used how they are used today?
3. Can I install it now and just cap the pump ports for future use?

I am assuming yes to all of these things, but I am wondering if I am missing/not considering something.

 

[cruisermatt]

Skip the Sniper especially for such a clean original example.

 

[anthonyc]

Skip the Sniper especially for such a clean original example.

Just keep rocking the carb and get it running well? I’m open to it, my mind just goes to modernizing, for no reason really other than reliability.

Right now it runs really rich, it doesn’t like to stay running cold, will die without a few minutes of choke to warm up. Was hoping to resolve all that. But I can see why keeping it all classic would be appealing.

 

[rlong]

Considered same. The two primary benefits of an in-tank pump are 1) it’s believed to make pump last longer due to cooling efect of reservoir of fuel (tends to be borne out by reports compared to inline pumps) and 2) they are reported much quieter when in conventional under body fuel tanks (makes sense). If you read long enough on Mud you will see comments that most pumps are very noisy in the cab when in a factory in cab tank. This also makes sense.. the pump is physically bolted to the top of the tank (drum/speaker effect). And many report being happy and it actually being quieter with good quality inline pump along the frame rail.. likely what I will do! So while the bazilion articles and posts indicating best practice is “in-tank” one of the main benefits is actually not there or worse for a FJ40 w/ in cab tank..

 

[B y r o n]

I would say that IF you KNOW you're going to go EFI then now is a good time to install an in-tank pump. You don't need to just let it sit there, you can run it with your carb using a return style pressure regulator set to carb PSI setting. When you install your EFI it is as simple as replacing the spring in the pressure regulator and resetting to the appropriate PSI setting for your EFI.

However, if you are unsure about the move to EFI right now then I say don't install the in-tank pump right now. No sense in spending the extra money if you're not going to be actually taking advantage of it.

Food for thought:

 

[pb4ugo]

I would wait to install the in tank pump until you are installing the sniper. It's easy enuff to get to it. Those early tanks might not be available new.

 

[Rock40]

Whatever you do, DO NOT run an external frame mounted pump. I don’t care how good or how expensive it is. I ran/tried them all over 20+ years

I’ve been stranded for 5 days in northern Canada, left dead in the road north of Portland, dead just out of camp in eastern Oregon, and dead on the road in Nevada after a Rubicon run. To name a few

The external pumps get hot, have tight tolerances and will cavitate. And yes, I tried everything over the years to remedy this.

I even have a family friend who owns a high end restoration shop that he refuses to run external pumps. Because the customer comes back with problems

I’ve been running an Aeromotive Phantom for about 5 years now. No issues, no cavitation and will work fine with only several gallons in the tank.

This is my opinion, others will disagree. I’m just sharing my experience

 

[cruisermatt]

Just keep rocking the carb and get it running well? I’m open to it, my mind just goes to modernizing, for no reason really other than reliability.

Yes. If you want ultimate reliability do not install a Sniper.

 

[anthonyc]

Considered same. The two primary benefits of an in-tank pump are 1) it’s believed to make pump last longer due to cooling efect of reservoir of fuel (tends to be borne out by reports compared to inline pumps) and 2) they are reported much quieter when in conventional under body fuel tanks (makes sense). If you read long enough on Mud you will see comments that most pumps are very noisy in the cab when in a factory in cab tank. This also makes sense.. the pump is physically bolted to the top of the tank (drum/speaker effect). And many report being happy and it actually being quieter with good quality inline pump along the frame rail.. likely what I will do! So while the bazilion articles and posts indicating best practice is “in-tank” one of the main benefits is actually not there or worse for a FJ40 w/ in cab tank..

Appreciate the feedback. I did actually do a ton of research before making a dumb post and I recall seeing your feedback threads as well.

 

[anthonyc]

Yes. If you want ultimate reliability do not install a Sniper.

What is the reasoning? Are the snipers just too much trouble with software and electronics? Managing the computer system, calibration and all that?

 

[bhsdriller]

Might turn into a sniper vs carb thread but spend enough time on here and you'll see all of the issues they have

Carbs are simple and just plain work

 

[Rock40]

And to add one thing…

Before folks start saying “What a goober! Why didn’t you carry a spare pump!?”

Well I did, and it got me out of a jam more than once. On the Rubicon trip, I didn’t have it on the way back because I’d given it away to another poor 40 owner with a DEAD externally mounted pump.

There’s a darn good reason all the OEM’s are in-tank fuel pumps

 

[anthonyc]

Might turn into a sniper vs carb thread but spend enough time on here and you'll see all of the issues they have

Carbs are simple and just plain work

Totally understandable. I mean, it's been running for 55 years just fine . I could be getting caught up in hype around electronic fuel injection. I just assumed it's a set it and forget it thing. No choke, no jets, no rich/lean, etc... combined with an electronic ignition, it just does it's thing like magic. I read it can even increase fuel milage from around 7 up to around 11 (not that it's very important). Keeping it simple for just driving around town or basic off-road is probably the way to go. I honestly don't want to overcomplicate things, I just want it to run well.

I'm a huge fan of OEM plus. Keep things looking really classic, but upgrade key mechanical components.

I'll do some more searching here for issues rather than just installs.

 

[Rock40]

Just for clarity, I’m only griping about the fuel delivery and that alone.

I have no experience with Sniper injection stuff personally, although I have not heard glowing things from others.

I know we’re not playing in the same sandbox, but I’ve had nothing but success running factory injection designed by a company that spent millions in R&D to make sure your truck would start every morning. Namely GM

 

[Pighead]

I could be getting caught up in hype

Totally understandable. Back in the day, the "Hot Ticket" was a Rochester carb and Delco dizzy, SOR said so. Then it was shackle reversals, because it looked so good on paper. EFI is super great 99% of the time. Carbs are pretty darned good 99% of the time. I can fix a carb. EFI has a computer and sensors. You have to do the thinking for a carb, you drive a carbed rig different. I like my carb, I've had it 40 years. I've had it apart a few times and understand it pretty well, I'd have no problem doing so again on the trail. I have had to pull the top off the carb to clean the needle valve on the roadside once or twice, takes about 30 minutes.
Take your carb apart, watch the Pinhead videos, put a rebuild kit in it and see what happens.
Hardly anything in a LandCruiser is set and forget, that is as it should be.
you wanna upgrade key mechanical components? Add front discs.

 

[Engineer8000]

I use a frame mounted pump with my 3fe. It is a Bosch pump designed for external use like that. It has been very reliable for 10+ years of daily driving. You have to use a pre-filter to keep the chunks out of the pump.

 

[peesalot]

I have had luck running a frame mounted pump, e2000 ( cheapo) with stock underseat tank. Yes its loud, been there since 06'.

 

[cruisermatt]

I am an in-tank pump fan however many European OEM's (Mercedes/Porsche/BMW/Volvo) use external Bosch pumps that are very reliable. As long as you get a genuine Bosch, mount it properly, and plumb it properly (almost no one does) it will be OK.
Here is one we did last week, you want to pull from the drain plug of the tank so the pump gets maximum head pressure.

 

[anthonyc]

I have had luck running a frame mounted pump, e2000 ( cheapo) with stock underseat tank. Yes its loud, been there since 06'.

To a carb?

 

[Its me shaneus]

I'm considering installing a Holley Sniper carb sometime down the road. However, right now I have the tank drained for cleaning and maintenance (hard cracked fuel lines, internal cleaning, etc). I would love to take this opportunity to install an in-tank fuel pump, possibly this Holley pump recommended by redline, and just leave it sitting there for future use.

1. Can I install a fuel pump in this older style tank? (I assume yes, but all examples I have found are later years with different vent lines)
2. If so, do all the stock vent lines, vapor tank etc still get used how they are used today?
3. Can I install it now and just cap the pump ports for future use?

I am assuming yes to all of these things, but I am wondering if I am missing/not considering something.

View attachment 4225797