Hi all, I’m currently on the road with wife and kids. After climbing a mountain I lost power. Engine starting idling rough and then died as I limped into a gas station. It would crank but not start. After letting sit for a while it started fine. Turned off then tried to start again and another rough idle, then it died. No CEL, recently replaced battery, full tank of gas and all gauges were normal. Recently cleaned MAF, throttle body and air box. I need help on isolating whether it’s the fuel filter, fuel pump, or other. Thanks in advance-Dave
06 Cruiser, P0430 fixed
- Thread starter Irshfshr
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morganism
SunkCostFallacy
Unhook fuel line at carb body and flush the line a bit (carefully- fire hazard). If you have some carb cleaner, can you blow it into the vac line outs at the carb base?
I don't know the throttle body setup, but that is a clogged jet in a standard carb. go buy a fuel filter anyway, you may have dumped some water into the the fuel pump pickup well, and have poisoned the "well". Fuel filter is cheap first step, and dump in some HEET fuel cleaner too....
I don't know the throttle body setup, but that is a clogged jet in a standard carb. go buy a fuel filter anyway, you may have dumped some water into the the fuel pump pickup well, and have poisoned the "well". Fuel filter is cheap first step, and dump in some HEET fuel cleaner too....
Might want to take a look through this thread:
Engine shutting off during long trips.
Engine shutting off during long trips.
Can be a few different things.
- If high mileage (old spark plugs 120K mile or greater) a coil or two is possible on the way out.
- The 06 seem to have a fuel pump issue. Very hard to detect, but was most often associated with ascending to around 12K feet ASL in Colorado. 15 or 20 minute shut down and all would be fine.
- Bad gas is certainly possible. A good Fuel cleaner available in CA is probably Chevron Techron.
- OM states to stop filling first time gasoline pump handle clicks off. Over filling Charcoal canister become damaged.
- Thread starter
- #6
This will be my introductory, Please Help Me Thread.
Well, we made it home. Luckily we were car-pooling. My brother got the wives and kids to the sledding area, and by the time he arrived with a new fuel filter and some new hand tools (last time I go anywhere without a basic set of tools), the LC had no symptoms. Started fine, held idle, and held steady when revved to 2K RPM'S. Changed the fuel filter anyway (took 10 mins.) completed the drive to the sledding area some 10-15 miles away, and then made it back home fine. The fact that it started fine before changing out the filter makes me think that was not the issue?
Now that I'm at a keyboard, a bit more background: I bought the truck in August last year. I currently have an 05 Sequoia which the wife drives, and the Cruiser replaced an 03 4Runner w/ the 4.7 (pre-VVTi). Both got better gas mileage and seem to have noticeably better throttle response/acceleration. In fact, that's the only let-down, albeit a big one, about the LC. Is this a common experience?
I loved the 4Runner, a true testament to Toyota trucks, which was 4wd, and OME lifted but it was a bit too small, and I didn't care for the seating position, much like a passenger car, too low to the floor. I sold it to my little sister w/ 170K on the clock, and I'm confident I could drive it across the country tomorrow, though my right knee would hurt from the awkward position. My hope is to buy it back from her when My 10 year old daughter is old enough to drive. Did I mention I loved that truck? I bought it used w/ 60K before my daughter was born, and it was incredibly solid and reliable. The Sequoia is great for a family veh., and long road trips where I won't be off-road. It's 2wd. My only complaints are that the brakes SUCK! I'll be replacing the front calipers soon. And it's nowhere near as nice as the LC which tops both as far as comfort, build quality, and a very solid on-road feel.
The LC will be used as my DD, for camping/hunting/fishing trips, and hauling around our 3 kids (10, 8, and 7) and their sports equipment. When I got the LC it had about 143K on the clock, all in SoCal. It now has 145K. Previous owner said he did not drive it frequently anymore, and it showed. Front and rear brake pads were bad. I changed the fronts the day after I bought it, rear brakes and rotors shortly after (front rotor replacement/bearing service to come soon). It had a dirty air filter (changed immediately), clogged sun-roof drain plugs, the the ac evaporator box leaked and was filthy inside, along with the area under the windshield cowling, both of which were full of tree debris and dog hair. But the fluids had been changed regularly at a Toyota Dealer, in addition to the T-belt change at 84K, and a few bearing/brake service jobs, also at the dealer. The drive train felt solid during test drives, and and has proven to be so since, other than the drive-shaft Thud, which I've researched here and am not worried about (over-greasing also to come soon). A new gas cap cleared a CEL that would throw on cold-morning start-ups. SoCal cold that is, about 50 or under.
On its maiden road-trip, dove hunting in Arizona in September w/temps at 105+, it had a rough idle upon returning to the hotel and going into P after driving fine all night/day. I turned it off and then back on. The starter cranked but could not turn engine on, which stuttered as though the Air/Fuel mixture was off. No CEL thrown. After I let it sit for about 15 mins. it started right up and had no other problems the rest of the trip. When I got home I cleaned the throttle body, MAF, and air box, and the problem did not repeat itself.
No other problems until today. The mountain climb was steep. Went from about 1,500 feet to 7,000 in about 30-40 mins. of drive-time. Temps were in the 70s at the start of the climb and low 50s when the problem started. Gas tank was full. I drove it hard up the hill but the gauges all looked fine, and it showed no ill effects until the climb leveled off. Luckily we were on a slight down hill and able to coast into the gas station before it died.
To CUBuffs, thanks for the link. I'll pour over the thread tomorrow.
To 2001LC, I've enjoyed following your restorations, and I'll be referring to your write-ups as I go through my LC. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. In response to your suggestions:
1. How can I check/test the coils? Should the spark plugs be changed as a matter of course, simply based on age/miles, and previous owners lack of care?
2. How to diagnose the fuel pump issue you mention?
3. With few exceptions, I use Chevron or Shell, and always 91 octane. I've also run 2 or three rounds of fuel additive in the time I've had the LC. One was SeaFoam, one was Chevron Techron, and I think one was STP or NAPA brand.
4. This is a possibility. I usually top off the tank w/ an extra 1/2 gallon or so when I fill up. I will stop doing that. Any tips on checking the condition of the Charcoal canister?
FYI, I'm an amateur tinkerer at best, but I love to learn. Luckily, a good friend has a shop I can use, and though he's not a LC guy, he is a good mechanic.
Thanks to all who post here. This is the most informative and civil forum I've found for any of my interests.
Well, we made it home. Luckily we were car-pooling. My brother got the wives and kids to the sledding area, and by the time he arrived with a new fuel filter and some new hand tools (last time I go anywhere without a basic set of tools), the LC had no symptoms. Started fine, held idle, and held steady when revved to 2K RPM'S. Changed the fuel filter anyway (took 10 mins.) completed the drive to the sledding area some 10-15 miles away, and then made it back home fine. The fact that it started fine before changing out the filter makes me think that was not the issue?
Now that I'm at a keyboard, a bit more background: I bought the truck in August last year. I currently have an 05 Sequoia which the wife drives, and the Cruiser replaced an 03 4Runner w/ the 4.7 (pre-VVTi). Both got better gas mileage and seem to have noticeably better throttle response/acceleration. In fact, that's the only let-down, albeit a big one, about the LC. Is this a common experience?
I loved the 4Runner, a true testament to Toyota trucks, which was 4wd, and OME lifted but it was a bit too small, and I didn't care for the seating position, much like a passenger car, too low to the floor. I sold it to my little sister w/ 170K on the clock, and I'm confident I could drive it across the country tomorrow, though my right knee would hurt from the awkward position. My hope is to buy it back from her when My 10 year old daughter is old enough to drive. Did I mention I loved that truck? I bought it used w/ 60K before my daughter was born, and it was incredibly solid and reliable. The Sequoia is great for a family veh., and long road trips where I won't be off-road. It's 2wd. My only complaints are that the brakes SUCK! I'll be replacing the front calipers soon. And it's nowhere near as nice as the LC which tops both as far as comfort, build quality, and a very solid on-road feel.
The LC will be used as my DD, for camping/hunting/fishing trips, and hauling around our 3 kids (10, 8, and 7) and their sports equipment. When I got the LC it had about 143K on the clock, all in SoCal. It now has 145K. Previous owner said he did not drive it frequently anymore, and it showed. Front and rear brake pads were bad. I changed the fronts the day after I bought it, rear brakes and rotors shortly after (front rotor replacement/bearing service to come soon). It had a dirty air filter (changed immediately), clogged sun-roof drain plugs, the the ac evaporator box leaked and was filthy inside, along with the area under the windshield cowling, both of which were full of tree debris and dog hair. But the fluids had been changed regularly at a Toyota Dealer, in addition to the T-belt change at 84K, and a few bearing/brake service jobs, also at the dealer. The drive train felt solid during test drives, and and has proven to be so since, other than the drive-shaft Thud, which I've researched here and am not worried about (over-greasing also to come soon). A new gas cap cleared a CEL that would throw on cold-morning start-ups. SoCal cold that is, about 50 or under.
On its maiden road-trip, dove hunting in Arizona in September w/temps at 105+, it had a rough idle upon returning to the hotel and going into P after driving fine all night/day. I turned it off and then back on. The starter cranked but could not turn engine on, which stuttered as though the Air/Fuel mixture was off. No CEL thrown. After I let it sit for about 15 mins. it started right up and had no other problems the rest of the trip. When I got home I cleaned the throttle body, MAF, and air box, and the problem did not repeat itself.
No other problems until today. The mountain climb was steep. Went from about 1,500 feet to 7,000 in about 30-40 mins. of drive-time. Temps were in the 70s at the start of the climb and low 50s when the problem started. Gas tank was full. I drove it hard up the hill but the gauges all looked fine, and it showed no ill effects until the climb leveled off. Luckily we were on a slight down hill and able to coast into the gas station before it died.
To CUBuffs, thanks for the link. I'll pour over the thread tomorrow.
To 2001LC, I've enjoyed following your restorations, and I'll be referring to your write-ups as I go through my LC. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. In response to your suggestions:
1. How can I check/test the coils? Should the spark plugs be changed as a matter of course, simply based on age/miles, and previous owners lack of care?
2. How to diagnose the fuel pump issue you mention?
3. With few exceptions, I use Chevron or Shell, and always 91 octane. I've also run 2 or three rounds of fuel additive in the time I've had the LC. One was SeaFoam, one was Chevron Techron, and I think one was STP or NAPA brand.
4. This is a possibility. I usually top off the tank w/ an extra 1/2 gallon or so when I fill up. I will stop doing that. Any tips on checking the condition of the Charcoal canister?
FYI, I'm an amateur tinkerer at best, but I love to learn. Luckily, a good friend has a shop I can use, and though he's not a LC guy, he is a good mechanic.
Thanks to all who post here. This is the most informative and civil forum I've found for any of my interests.
Weclome.
Your issue is very like from over filling gas tank. Now that you've stop you're probably be ok.
That said;
We generally look at coils as either good or bad. There is equipment to test, but good luck finding a shop with it. Heat is what does coil the most damage. Yes pull the spark plugs and keep them and coils in order on your bench. Look at condition of both for clues. Number one thing to check is spark plug gap. Wide gap draws more volts overheating coils. Which I like to check gap after cleaning them with a $20 spark plug cleaner from Harbor Freight (uses compressed air) at 85 psi for 20 seconds. FSM recommends 1.1mm gap new. 1.3mm gap is max used (do not change gap of used). I replace if gap has increased to 1.2mm, or with Timing Belt job at 90K miles just to align with timing belt job. Use your fingers with plug socket and extension to install spark plugs, they should thread in easy. Then torque to 13ft-lbf. "don't cross thread". See my signature for links and tips.
When to replace Ignition coils.
Fuel pump test.
You'd be better off taking to your friend along with the Factory Service Manual (FSM) or to a Toyota Dealer and have fuel system checked. Read through Snowy's thread in my links. You'll see I mention PO had issue with "shutting down" while ascending I-70 over Continental Divide. This went on for years, which over that time had multiple fuel pump test, Toyota Dealer shop even driving up the mountain to 12K ASL with test equipment attached, without being able to find any issue. Finally they just replace the fuel pump and issue never came back.
But fuel pump may not be your issue. You've been overfilled gas tank and ascended from sea level. This is very bad for charcoal canister and may be your issue. There is a test the FSM walks through that again may be better having shop or Toyota do for you. But first see how it does now that you stop over filling. Look at you charcoal canister and see if looks swollen is a starting point. Your' canister is in rear but this link may be helpful. Charcoal Cannister Valve
Not that this is your issue, but not a bad idea. At your mileage and fact rigs been sitting (not used much by PO) consider replacement Fuel Pressure Regulator and sending out fuel injectors to FIS. Tell Chuck your heard about in "mud" and Paul referred you. When to Clean or Replace fuel injectors
Vacuum line are a biggy, check all, see my links on this also. This includes that of the fuel recover system. Make sure you look above spare tire also.
Read through The Redbaron's thread and links at issue of oily grim on intake manifold, for sign it's gaskets needing replacing.
This is done to confirm bad coil, once you've a CEL that points to bad coil.
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^^ Agree, time to put a pump in. If in doubt rule it out by replacing. I think toyota must of had a slight design or a supply issue around this build year.
Everything that @2001LC said!! ^^^^^
I have a 2007 and this happened to me 3 times in the last year of ownership. I live in Colorado and altitude is definitely a factor. Once when it was 90+ degrees and I was going from ~ 5200 feet to 7500 feet. It happened twice during the Hundreds in the Hills event (elevation between 9000 and 12000 ft).
As outlined in this thread already (and other threads on Mud), the ‘06-‘07 have a different charcoal filter setup that causes vapor lock to occur. I’m not a mechanic or long time Toyota expert, but the vapor lock threads here exactly matched my symptoms.
In all cases I had engine sputtering, CEL light then no ignition for 20-30 mins.
Here’s my .02
- if you know you are headed for altitude, only fill 3/4 tank
- when you are ascending check for vapor lock symptoms
- symptoms include gas smell near rear of vehicle, hissing or gurgling when gas cap is released
- check your gas cap at each stop for pressure
If it happens again - SLOWLY release gas cap for pressure release (or you may get sprayed with gas). While engine is off, leave gas cap off for 10-20 mins and try and restart. You may have to clear the codes with a OBDII scan tool or reset by taking off the positive battery cable (VGRS will reset if you do this).
Consider a new fuel filter.
If you have a fuel pump producing lower pressure and producing heat this contributes to vapor lock. High altitude you cannot do anything about as it just lowers the fuels boiling point, but better fuel maybe. I am not convinced with the charcoal canister being linked to the vapor lock issues at altitude, agree that they can get fouled if topping off but that is a issue at any altitude. Vapor lock is generally caused by heat and it’s affect on fuel, other things can affect it but that is in the design of the system.
Ps. I am wondering whether Toyota runs a two speed fuel pump to keep pump temps down and not just as a performance thing, but that is just a guess.
This happened to me in the middle of Mengel pass in DV (somewhat challenging terrain), about 3,500 feet, gas tank about 2/3 full, pretty mild temps outside in the mid 60's....
I'm wondering why simply waiting 20-30 minutes resolves this issue. What is happening in that time that helps the 100? Pressure release? Gas temps cooling? All of the above?
I'm wondering why simply waiting 20-30 minutes resolves this issue. What is happening in that time that helps the 100? Pressure release? Gas temps cooling? All of the above?
- Thread starter
- #15
Update-
After making it home from the mountains last Monday, and driving to work with no symptoms Tuesday day, it threw a CEL on Wed. w/in a couple miles after leaving the house. The code was P0430 "Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 2." Bank 2 is passenger side, right?
I'm not sure if this helps diagnose the problem, or makes it more complicated? I tested the fuel pressure yesterday, and it held steady at 42 psi, although it sounds like the fuel pump issues with the '06 are difficult to diagnose and it might work fine under certain conditions, and not under others. So I'm not sure that the fact I had good fuel pressure means that the pump does not need replacing.
I cleared the code and I'll see if/when and under what conditions it returns or has any other symptoms. In the meantime I'll start pulling plugs and coils for inspection.
Thanks to all for the tips and advise. I'll update as I work through this problem.
After making it home from the mountains last Monday, and driving to work with no symptoms Tuesday day, it threw a CEL on Wed. w/in a couple miles after leaving the house. The code was P0430 "Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 2." Bank 2 is passenger side, right?
I'm not sure if this helps diagnose the problem, or makes it more complicated? I tested the fuel pressure yesterday, and it held steady at 42 psi, although it sounds like the fuel pump issues with the '06 are difficult to diagnose and it might work fine under certain conditions, and not under others. So I'm not sure that the fact I had good fuel pressure means that the pump does not need replacing.
I cleared the code and I'll see if/when and under what conditions it returns or has any other symptoms. In the meantime I'll start pulling plugs and coils for inspection.
Thanks to all for the tips and advise. I'll update as I work through this problem.
You seems to know your stuff. Once a CAT has gone there is no coming back other than replacement, now what you need to look at is your downstream sensor voltage, the more it mirrors the upstream sensor the less efficient the CAT is. If the voltage is steady but reading low then just a downstream sensor might do the trick or even a upstream sensor, but when the voltage starts fluctuating rapidly then I have never come across a repair other than replacement. Now what confuses the matter is why the CAT would play up and wear out prematurely, this is where the fuel pump link is again as a possible cause but obviously there are others.
My truck throws a p0420 and p0430 at least once per tank of gas. I clear them and have been watching for any other symptoms. Sometimes I get both codes together - sometimes they come thru seperately.
I asked my local Lexus dealership about troubleshooting and they immediately jumped to replacing both CATs for ~$3500. Interested to see what your next move is. I’ve debated replacing O2 sensors, but don’t want to waste $$ if eventually have to replace CATs.
I asked my local Lexus dealership about troubleshooting and they immediately jumped to replacing both CATs for ~$3500. Interested to see what your next move is. I’ve debated replacing O2 sensors, but don’t want to waste $$ if eventually have to replace CATs.
Subscribed because I have a stalling problem on my 2001 LX too
