Death Wobble After Adding 4 Degree Shims (1 Viewer)

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PabloCruise

SILVER Star
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Jun 3, 2004
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Location
Northern Colorado
I am writing about my '78 FJ-40

It has a 4 inch lift and 60 series PS

I am running 33x12.50 BFG MT's

I have run it like this for well over a year and all was mostly fine. She would find the ruts in the road and the steering was a little darty.

Alignment shop checked caster and found I was about negative 1 degree on both sides.

I ordered up some 4 degree shims from Roger Brown and just finished putting them in.

I also went with some nicer u-bolt skid plates that won't taco when I bounce on a rock.

I also switched the bushings that go in the front spring hanger to get my shackles to hang parallel.

I took the 40 out for a drive. All was fine until I hit a RR track crossing and started feeling a little shimmy that quickly escalated into what I believe people call the "death wobble". Applying the brakes did very little good, it felt like it was shaking itself to pieces

I had NO problem with death wobble before this, even with neg caster. I would run this rig up to 70 MPH with no problem.

Now, one day later, I am afraid that I just f*cked up and won't be able to make Cruise Moab.

After reading, I am suspecting three sources for this:

-Center pin torque
-U-bolt torque
-Shackle bolt torque?

Can anyone offer their experience to me on this? If I don't have to pull the U-bolt plates, I'd rather not if the center pin torque is not all that important.

I know u-bolt torque is important, I did not check tightness with a torque wrench.

How important is the tightness of the shackle bolts? I thought you did not want them too tight, so you can flex.

These are the same tires I have been running for at least a year and a half with no problems. The only things I have changed are the shims, u-bolt plates, and bushings.

HELP PLEASE!!!
 
loose U bolts

and you installed them correctly right?
 
Time for some pics:

The shims (yes, the fat end is forward) and the bushings. I went with a narrower shoulder bushing up top to get my shackles to hang parallel.
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Not sure I follow, how do you install u-bolts, other than the obvious way?

install and torqe(sp) them with the rig at rest or off the jackstands and all the weight on the suspension.
this is also when everything that has to do with the suspension is torqed.
not when its all hanging in the air, but on the ground.
take the shims out and see what happens.moab is soon, don't delay :D

edit:
did you replace everything before taking it to the shop?
 
sorry its late.

what did you torqe the u-bolt 2?

i try to get mine to about 100+ft lbs

then re-check them after about 100 miles
 
Time for some pics:

The shims (yes, the fat end is forward) and the bushings. I went with a narrower shoulder bushing up top to get my shackles to hang parallel.



I'm assuming you tightened the top left shackle bolt when looking at it from the front.

Try this. Tighten the shackles more and re-drive. I bet they are your source.
 
Your passenger side shackle bolts look a bit loose. You can still see the shape of the lock washers which aren't flattened out.

Also, the right-side plate of the driver's side shackle has a weird angle to it, unless that's just the perspective from the photo.

Now, are 4 degree caster shims 'standard'? If you were -1* caster, and you put on 4 degree shims, that works out to +3* caster (in my simple mind anyway). I wonder if this could also cause the problem? I haven't done any axle shimming before, so I'm just taking a shot in the dark.
 
actually you should check with the spring shop about what they call negative and positive caster.Negative caster is the bottom trunion forward of the top trunion. If this is how they measured it and you added 4 degree shims then you would be at 5 degrees negative caster .(maybe a bit too much?) Do you have any play anywhere with the tires hanging in the air? Maybe get a buddy to turn the wheel left and right with the tires on the ground to see what is flexing /moving that maybe shouldn't be.
 
Time for some pics:

The shims (yes, the fat end is forward) and the bushings. I went with a narrower shoulder bushing up top to get my shackles to hang parallel.

A lot of aftermarket springs are not as wide as stock springs. If your springs fall in that category, take a close look at your spring shackle pin. You are using stock shackle pins that are shouldered. You would need to use spring bushings with wider flanges to take up the extra space to get a snug fit. Yours look a little loose.

Good Luck
 
you should have installed all that stuff first then had the alignment checked .alittle extra neg castor doesnt hurt with bigger tires as they require a little more neg castor than stock tires take out the shims and try it again since thats how your trouble started . i have also found alignment shops and cruisers dont always get along. also if you have wore a bunch of rubber off your tires since they were balanced last that will also effect handling good luck
 
its not your ubolts unless they are insanely loose! get new stouter bushings and shackles (those look worked) go with less or no shim, check you knuckles for play and check your toe and i bet you will be fine. degreee shims can make a big difference with DW, but usually somthing else makes it even worse, ie.... bad shackles/bushings. good luck:D
 
your shackles and u's are fine. IMO the -1 caster was masking a diff prob. I would bet that you have a wheel bearing issue, toe in issue, or tire balance issue.
 
Top trunion behind bottom trunion is POSITIVE caster, not negative. So if you were -1 and added 4 degrees you should be +3, which is perfect.

So I also wonder if your new parts and adjustments didn't change something or bring some other problem to the forefront. Seems like I remember you already rebuilt your knuckles and wheel bearings, but not sure. If not you could check for bearing play and low trunion preload. Just a thought.
 
I'm assuming you tightened the top left shackle bolt when looking at it from the front.

Try this. Tighten the shackles more and re-drive. I bet they are your source.

X2 Yes I'm quoting myself again.
 

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