22RE: Chasing a Gremlin

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pappy

pappy

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I'm at whits end. 1985 4Runner with late model plenum and throttle body.

First, no codes.

Symptom #1: As the engine starts to warm up and it gets to 150* vacuum drops, idle speed drops, engine starts to stall, engine continues to run smooth. As the engine continues to warm up, and gets to 180-185* it gets better, but vacuum is still low. Engine lights instantly when 30* outside in the morning.

Symptom #2: If I shut the engine down, run into the store, and come back to an engine that has cooled down to 150* the engine will light quickly, but will run extremely rough. It runs so bad I can't get the truck to move under it's own power until it smooths out.

Symptom #3: Even after the engine warms up it still has a "miss" at rpm under load that can best be described like I'm being buffeted by wind. Just little hesitations as I'm driving. The engine idles smooth, though vacuum can be a little low (12" @ 5000ft).

Assuming a temperature and EFI issue: I've replaced the EFI temperature sensor which did help a little, but not much. I replaced the cold start time switch, which really made a big difference in how the engine runs, but really didn't solve the two problems.

My fuel pressure regulator was 25 years old with 300+k so I went ahead and replaced that. Not much of a difference. Maybe a little in how the engine runs, but it had no effect on the problems.

Fuel pump was replaced about 3 months ago after it failed.

One other odd thing I notice. I have a meter on the Ox sensor (air/fuel). Normally at WOT it would show something on the gauge. Right now, it glows dark. I suspected possibily Ox sensor, but a swap proved it wasn't an issue.

I'm running out of options. The only other temperature option I can think of is the throttle body which has water lines running into it. Other than that I'm down to TPS or AFM. I have boneyard backups of both and I'm going to swap in the spare AFM tonight. I don't expect it to be the problem. I'll clean the TB when I pull it to replace the TPS, but won't happen for probably a week. I'm leaning toward the TPS, largely because of the lack of response from the Ox sensor at WOT.

Like I said, 150* seems to be the magic number. Ummm, thinking ... EGR?

Any thoughts?
 
Pappy i held my shift key down to long so i am stuck on cap locks and no punctuation

check the air tube from the afm to the throttle body

and also the egr in the trouble shooting section of the fsm they are both listed in poor acceleration or hesitates

and rough idling
 
also in those sections it mentions plugs, high tension wires.


rough idle stalls or misses also has the coil and igniter mentioned


i would check that plastic tube first though. if it has a hairline crack in it it could be sealed when cold, but then as it warms and expands it could open.
 
toy4xfun said:
check the air tube from the afm to the throttle body
Click to expand...

toy4xfun said:
rough idle stalls or misses also has the coil and igniter mentioned
Click to expand...

The rubber connector off the AFM is new. I'll check the rest of the hose to the TB.

I tried a spare coil/ignitor and it made no difference.

I might fab up a block off plate to see if the EGR is the problem. I seem to recall it's also temp controlled. Isn't there a BVSV someplace?
 
Howdy! Biggest common problem I've come across on the 22re is the tps socket gets loose and wiggles around, creating a floating value. I had to fab up my own little safety wire twist tie to hold the socket on really tight, as the OEM clips had died. good luck. John
 
Nope, and it's getting worse. I have class tonight and won't get to look at it until tomorrow after work.
 
ever check your timing?
 
Switched/transposed vac lines? Had that same issue w/ a Celica a couple weeks ago.
 
Well, not vacuum lines. I popped the hood and remembered I had disconnected the two lines to the EGR. EGR was disabled. The only vacuum lines left are the charcoal canister and the fuel pressure regulator vacuum switch. They look good.
 
on the 60 its common to reverse the two smaller lines coming off the charcoal canister and also if it clogged you might it smiler symptoms. You may try blowing out the canister.
pappy said:
Well, not vacuum lines. I popped the hood and remembered I had disconnected the two lines to the EGR. EGR was disabled. The only vacuum lines left are the charcoal canister and the fuel pressure regulator vacuum switch. They look good.
Click to expand...
 
cruiser88 said:
on the 60 its common to reverse the two smaller lines coming off the charcoal canister and also if it clogged you might it smiler symptoms. You may try blowing out the canister.
Click to expand...

Blowing out the canister is easy. I'll try that. The two lines, though, are different sizes. Hard to mess that up.
 
OK, problem is now worse enough to trigger a code, two actually.

4. Water thermo sensor signal
7. Throttle position sensor signal

I just replaced the thermo sensor.

Tomorrow, TPS.
 
Still fighting. Finally replaced the TPS yesterday. Made a little difference, but problem still exists. Late last night I swapped in a difference (boneyard) AFM. It did start better this morning, but all I did was move the truck out of the garage. I'm working on a buddies BJ40 today, and dancing tonight, so I won't have time to work on my junk today.
 
This is getting silly. Installed a different computer, no difference. Installed a new cold start injector cuz it was very stubborn to start on our 15* mornings. Still starts like poo, no change. Today I bought an ox sensor and actually gained more information. The truck doesn't run much better, but I have an air/fuel meter. I noticed before that the meter when dark under load, or over about half throttle. Today, I see why. I'm lean under load. Under moderate to light throttle I'm fine. Now I'm really stumped.
 
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