Toyota igniter vs. aftermarket (1 Viewer)

[Trollhole]

If you have a later dizzy say 78 and later with the electronic pickup what is the purpose of keeping a stock igniter and not just run a new coil with two basic wires and ditch the igniter and stock coil?

There has got to be a reason. Smog? What if you didn't have it? Wouldn't having an aftermarket coil that produced a bigger spark and had a bigger gap be more efficient?

 

[3doghouse]

You could go with any number of aftermarket ignitors, or even an hei ignitor per threads on pirate, but if you went with no ignitor, your coil would get a signal with almost no dwell.

It would be like running points with almost no gap... spark duration would not be right.

 

[Mace]

Without some sort of igniter.. It won't fire..

 

[Trollhole]

Ok good stuff. So old cruiser with just points and a coil work. An old cruiser with pertronics conversion and a coil work. A 75-77 cruiser with points and a coil will not work. And a newer 78-84 cruiser with eletronic dizzy and a coil will not work.

So the pertronics conversion is different in that it provides dwell? If so why not just convert a later dizzy to pertronics and ditch the igniter. It's ugly and doesn't take paint well.

 

[Coolerman]

The electronic igniter replaces the point and condenser with an epoxy potted solid state system. It takes the weak signal from the pickup in the dizzy, amplifies it, and uses it to fire the coil. No moving parts, no adjusting.

So if you ditch the stock igniter, you must replace it with another 'igniter' that will interface to the weak signal from the stock pickup. I believe that Mallory makes a replacement that has the inputs for a stock pickup.

FWIW, I believe the stock igniter is the way to go. You will gain nothing from a wider spark plug gap on an F/2F motor. Just locate another igniter and carry it as a spare.

 

[Trollhole]

The electronic igniter replaces the point and condenser with an epoxy potted solid state system. It takes the weak signal from the pickup in the dizzy, amplifies it, and uses it to fire the coil. No moving parts, no adjusting.

So if you ditch the stock igniter, you must replace it with another 'igniter' that will interface to the weak signal from the stock pickup. I believe that Mallory makes a replacement that has the inputs for a stock pickup.

FWIW, I believe the stock igniter is the way to go. You will gain nothing from a wider spark plug gap on an F/2F motor. Just locate another igniter and carry it as a spare.

But 75-77 cruisers have points and igniter. What is the purpose?


Good read especially on spark gap.
Spark plug - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Coolerman]

But 75-77 cruisers have points and igniter. What is the purpose?


Good read especially on spark gap.
Spark plug - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The early igniters simply took the load off the points so they would last MUCH longer. The early points had to handle the entire coil current and would burn and pit . The early igniters only used points to trigger the igniter which handled all the coil current.

 

[Trollhole]

The early igniters simply took the load off the points so they would last MUCH longer. The early points had to handle the entire coil current and would burn and pit . The early igniters only used points to trigger the igniter which handled all the coil current.

So pertronics can handle the current of a coil and not require an igniter?

 

[Coolerman]

Yep...

 

[Trollhole]

Hmmm very interesting.

So if one wanted to have the best of the best would be to get an early vacuum advance distributor converted to pertronics and get a coil that doesn't require a ballast resistor. And do away with points, ballast resistor and the stupid igniter? And just carry a set of points just in case? And have the same performance and more reliability as the big cap fully electronic?

 

[Blue77FJ40]

Pertronix also replaces the points (re 77-78). More accuracy and greater spark with their coil. I have the early (77) stock semi-electronic setup and see no reason to change - unless the ignitor takes a dump. If I had to change, it would probably be to a stock later model fully electronic version. I'd also have to get a later engine side cover with the larger depression for the larger distributor head.

 

[Mace]

If I had to change, it would probably be to a stock later model fully electronic version. I'd also have to get a later engine side cover with the larger depression for the larger distributor head.

Not if you get the 79/80 small cap fully electronic dizzy..



Marshall, I fought with a ton of different options. I ended up getting a JDM non vac advance 2F dizzy with a petronix. For my application it was perfect.

get an older vac advance dizzy and put a petronix in it. That way, if something fails, you drop a set of points in there and drive away..

I was sick and tired of chasing electrical gremlins in my 40..

 

[mooker82]

Hmmm very interesting.

So if one wanted to have the best of the best would be to get an early vacuum advance distributor converted to pertronics and get a coil that doesn't require a ballast resistor. And do away with points, ballast resistor and the stupid igniter? And just carry a set of points just in case? And have the same performance and more reliability as the big cap fully electronic?

What year would this be? I have the one that was removed from my 72 that you can have. I do not kinow the working condition but it looks okay to me.

 

[Trollhole]

What year would this be? I have the one that was removed from my 72 that you can have. I do not kinow the working condition but it looks okay to me.

Hey, not needing anything since I've gone all ECU. But I'm all for expanding my brain capacity and trying to figure out how things work. You would be surprised at what I have stored up in my big head. Though it's starting to get full. I having to make room by kicking some old things out. Why just today this thread caused me to forget all of the 5th grade. K-4 were gone a long time ago. Ever wondered why my spelling was so bad?



So I'm assuming if you have a 75-76 distributor your SOL on converting it?

 

[Trollhole]

Not if you get the 79/80 small cap fully electronic dizzy..



Marshall, I fought with a ton of different options. I ended up getting a JDM non vac advance 2F dizzy with a petronix. For my application it was perfect.

get an older vac advance dizzy and put a petronix in it. That way, if something fails, you drop a set of points in there and drive away..

I was sick and tired of chasing electrical gremlins in my 40..

I figured JDM was the way to go.

Question now that most of the questions above have been answered.


Would having a bigger coil output help any in adding economy and hp?

I looked at a lot of coils when I went aftermarket. My understanding is to have the biggest output and the longest spark. Is this correct?

The one I bought had these specs.

Primary Resistance: 0.500 ohms
Coil Internal Construction: Epoxy
Maximum Voltage: 51,000 V
Turns Ratio: 99:1
Secondary Resistance: 8.9K ohms
Inductance: 5.6 mH
Peak Current: 260 mA
Spark Duration: 250 uS

 

[Coolerman]

Search here on MUD to get Pin_Heads (and my) thoughts on high end ignition systems. These are tractor motors and have no need for high voltage, long duration sparks. Now if you were turning 6-10K on your motor.... Hmmm come to think of it maybe Andrew Farmer or Matt could use such a thing...

That said I used to run a Jacobs Omni-Pak on a 1991 Pathfinder. The plugs had to be re-gapped to 0.055. There was a noticeable increase in power at mid range 2-3k rpm throttle. Perfect for cruising the interstates....

 

[Trollhole]

Search here on MUD to get Pin_Heads (and my) thoughts on high end ignition systems. These are tractor motors and have no need for high voltage, long duration sparks. Now if you were turning 6-10K on your motor.... Hmmm come to think of it maybe Andrew Farmer or Matt could use such a thing...

That said I used to run a Jacobs Omni-Pak on a 1991 Pathfinder. The plugs had to be re-gapped to 0.055. There was a noticeable increase in power at mid range 2-3k rpm throttle. Perfect for cruising the interstates....

I gapped my plugs to .045. Really have no idea what is the best since it's all one off.

I was under the impression a big fat spark was the best for economy and performance.

 

[CruisinGA]

Something hasn't been mentioned about the "big cap" distributors yet-
-o-ring sealed from factory
-utilize a ball bearing vs bronze bushing

These two points are well worth considering when researching an ignition system.

Hmmm very interesting.

So if one wanted to have the best of the best would be to get an early vacuum advance distributor converted to pertronics and get a coil that doesn't require a ballast resistor. And do away with points, ballast resistor and the stupid igniter? And just carry a set of points just in case? And have the same performance and more reliability as the big cap fully electronic?

 

[Mark W]

'78 and later facory distributor is waterproof... this is more important in our rigs around here than any arguable performance gain that you might get with a modded early distributor.


Mark...

 

[Coolerman]

I have no doubt that a 'bigger, fatter' spark has benefits for some engines but I doubt that you will ever feel the difference for the money it would cost to obtain the bigger, fatter spark.

Sparkplugs.com - Spark Plug 411 Link to the Pulse plug that has everyone gaga: On a high performance engine they gained 3 HP and 3 ft lb of torque Wow!

Gap your plugs to what ever the 1978 electronic dizzy spec is and enjoy!