Tires in 2019: Anything better than KO2s? (1 Viewer)

[TomasAllan]

Does no one run Nitto Terra Graplers? I’ve had two sets and have been really thrilled with their on/off road performance. Not a ton of snow miles but even that has been positive.

I do, I am a fan for life for these, I owned both a set of TG’s on my 4runner and Terra Grappler G2’s, these things just go and have never let me down, the 4runner over 47k miles and looking good and the 200 land cruiser nearly 60k on the G2’s and still going strong.

I am in Atlanta, plenty of trips out west in Moab, CO, AZ, CA, NM, Canada, driven them through blizzards and have never (knock on wood) had a problem. They are heavy though )

 

[LCMemphis]

Cooper Discoverers AT3' 4S..no comparison

 

[Mogwai]

None of that assessment surprises me.

Taco...you might recall my one early concern with ridge Grapplers was side-slide in the gushy stuff. That criticism remains with voids that I think are pretty narrow. But for my area of dry stuff, they’ve been great.

If I ever transplant my residence in the mud zone, Ridge Grapplers would go the way of the boobie on my truck. If I do hit mud here...(mummified tires anyone?)...nothing but serious mud bloggers would have even had a chance in my mummy example...and the power to spin them clear. But other than that rarity in the south west....these RGs perform well, and the sidewalls are strong enough for me.

But meh... I played it familiar with my recent size swap. With Moab, desert, Ouray and Baja the most likely destinations...these will do.

Finally...if ever manage to grab a second set of RWs for myself? -My second set will be full-strength nutso.

Wait wait wait... where did the boobies go? Better not be true.

 

[coleAK]

So been reading through this as this will probably be my last summer on my KO2s. I run hakka’s In the winter so winter performance isn’t much concern. Most of my driving in summer it towing the camper and off road. Off road is: sand, old technical forest service trails, I avoid rock crawling when possible, and not much mud but when I’m in mud it’s really bad mud.

My buddy who owns the tire shop I use said he can get me a better deal on toyo AT 2 and highly recommends them over the KO2. What are the thoughts? Anyone prefer them out west?

 

[mcgaskins]

So been reading through this as this will probably be my last summer on my KO2s. I run hakka’s In the winter so winter performance isn’t much concern. Most of my driving in summer it towing the camper and off road. Off road is: sand, old technical forest service trails, I avoid rock crawling when possible, and not much mud but when I’m in mud it’s really bad mud.

My buddy who owns the tire shop I use said he can get me a better deal on toyo AT 2 and highly recommends them over the KO2. What are the thoughts? Anyone prefer them out west?

Toyo AT2s suuuuuuuuck. It's one of the oldest AT tires on the market and it shows. I won't say who, but I know someone here who shredded at least 2 if not 3 of them at LCDC last year. Just don't do it - likely the worst option of everything mentioned here. And yes, I've run them too for about 3 months.

 

[40Man]

Cooper Discoverers AT3' 4S..no comparison

There was an offroad wheel shootout a few years back on Expedition Portal (Where the Rubber Meets the Road) and the old AT3 won hands down. It wasn't severe snow "rated" but outperformed others in wet. IIRC, the current AT3 options are snow rated.

Most tire comparisons are based on conjecture and no real world information. There are a lot of good choices these days compared to what we used to be able to buy. I'd love an update to the Expedition Portal article with more current rubber.

 

[coleAK]

Toyo AT2s suuuuuuuuck. It's one of the oldest AT tires on the market and it shows. I won't say who, but I know someone here who shredded at least 2 if not 3 of them at LCDC last year. Just don't do it - likely the worst option of everything mentioned here. And yes, I've run them too for about 3 months.

Thanks, is there a newer Toyo AT? Ive never had a problem with the KO2 but I’m only going to get 30k miles max.

There was an offroad wheel shootout a few years back on Expedition Portal (Where the Rubber Meets the Road) and the old AT3 won hands down. It wasn't severe snow "rated" but outperformed others in wet. IIRC, the current AT3 options are snow rated.

Most tire comparisons are based on conjecture and no real world information. There are a lot of good choices these days compared to what we used to be able to buy. I'd love an update to the Expedition Portal article with more current rubber.

The AT3 was the other tire my buddy recommended over the KO2. Thanks that’s good to know

 

[Tremek]

Lots of good feedback, thanks everyone.

PS @4xoddic - I can't speak exactly for the Dunlops that are on your '19, but the OEM-replacement Dunlops that came on our LC in '16 as brand-new CPO replacements were garbage on the street (hydroplaning in wet and easy to lock up/engage ABS even in dry conditions on the highway) and I experienced similar issues with OEM Dunlops on a rental 4runner we also had in 2016, so I am not a fan and would recommend almost anything being discussed in this thread if you make the move here to CO!

As for tires I want/need: I'm trying to compile a list of E-rated, 3PMSF tires with stout sidewalls, and a treadwear rating would be cool too but I'm not sure I'll get that on an E-rated LT tire...?

Falken: in my research of the Falken Wildpeak AT3Ws I'm struggling to figure out whether they're 2-ply sidewalls with reinforcement around the bead and lugs, whether they're 3-ply, or if it even matters in practice. The mfr. site also mentions a 285/75/17 - it looks to weigh 65.5 lbs vs 58.9 lbs for the 285/70/17 but they also claim it's almost an inch taller. Guessing these might fit under a 2.5" lift?

Cooper: Looking at Cooper AT3 4s I don't think these come as E-rated (per the mfr. site, the passenger-rated 285/70/17 only weighs 46 lbs. so I suspect these are too light duty.)

As for the rest of the Cooper line, their site lists 7 more tires in 285/70/17 that are off-road oriented - some are M+S oriented (and a few conspicuously don't state any winter rating) but none are 3PMSF. That's kind of a conspicuous absence...

Nitto: Holy crap there are a lot of options. I haven't fully parsed their stuff yet. Will look more later...

 

[mcgaskins]

Thanks, is there a newer Toyo AT? Ive never had a problem with the KO2 but I’m only going to get 30k miles max.

Not yet, though I suspect there will be one coming soon since the competition has caught up and passed them. That's the thing with the tires on the market right now. It's not that the Toyo AT2 or Duratrac is a bad tire, it's just the competition has become much better and released tires that perform much better. When I bought my Duratracs 7 years ago for my 100, it was an easy choice because everyone was running it with good results (weak sidewalls always an issue), but now if I see someone buy brand new Duratracs I can't help but think "oh no this person didn't do any research on what's out there". I've run so many different AT tires I have a hard time naming them all, but the short list for me is only 2 tires - Ridge Grapplers and KO2s.

 

[Markuson]

Wait wait wait... where did the boobies go? Better not be true.

Blue footed boobie...

 

[Tex68w]

AT2's blow and we weren't fans of the G2's we had on our 2015 4Runner.

 

[tbisaacs]

There was an offroad wheel shootout a few years back on Expedition Portal (Where the Rubber Meets the Road) and the old AT3 won hands down. It wasn't severe snow "rated" but outperformed others in wet. IIRC, the current AT3 options are snow rated.

Most tire comparisons are based on conjecture and no real world information. There are a lot of good choices these days compared to what we used to be able to buy. I'd love an update to the Expedition Portal article with more current rubber.

Came here to share this, but you beat me to it! I wish they would do an update. The K02 wasn't out when this was published.

 

[grinchy]

I believe the falken is 2 ply sidewall with ply turn up.So like a 2.5 ply? Lots of owners on here maybe one can confirm what is actually stated on tire?

The weight is usually a giveaway that it is 2 or 3 ply. 10 lbs heavier? Then 3 ply sidewalls is likely.

 

[Itsky]

KO2s are OEM spec on raptors and rubicons. They also come in load range C, which is saves weight where it matters most. Pair them rock warriors and you have a wheel tire combo that’s about equal to stock.

 

[AUswimmer]

KO2s are OEM spec on raptors and rubicons. They also come in load range C, which is saves weight where it matters most. Pair them rock warriors and you have a wheel tire combo that’s about equal to stock.

Ditto my conclusions. Been reading and studying for sometime.

 

[TeCKis300]

Toyo AT2s suuuuuuuuck. It's one of the oldest AT tires on the market and it shows. I won't say who, but I know someone here who shredded at least 2 if not 3 of them at LCDC last year. Just don't do it - likely the worst option of everything mentioned here. And yes, I've run them too for about 3 months.

Been waiting for Toyo to step up their game. The Open Country AT design hails from last decade, when they were competitive compared to the original KOs. With a compound update somewhere around 2012, hence AT II. Nitto being a subsidiary or Toyo, also gave that compound update to the Terra Grapplers. The newer compound was harder, to give more competitive tire life. Yet at some minor cost to increased noise. I had NTGs on my LX470, great more street oriented AT tire. Yet abysmal in snow/ice.

Both of these tires IMO, are dated technology.

I believe the falken is 2 ply sidewall with ply turn up.So like a 2.5 ply? Lots of owners on here maybe one can confirm what is actually stated on tire?

The weight is usually a giveaway that it is 2 or 3 ply. 10 lbs heavier? Then 3 ply sidewalls is likely.

Yup, 2-ply. But almost 4.

https://www.offroadxtreme.com/engine-tech/wheels-tires/falken-wildpeak-at3w-tire-review/

The tire features a two-ply sidewall, but both plies have high ply turn ups wrapping around the bead and rising back up, ending just shy of the upper sidewall tread features. This creates a four-ply thick, sidewall to protect from punctures in off-road situations.

These are my current favorite tire, for MY use. My brother has KO2s on his LX470 (my old ride). I would pick the Falken's everytime because:

- I like the softer tire compound that Falken uses. Still very wear resistance, but the softer compound has benefits for cold weather rain and performance, where it actually makes a big usability difference for me when I visit the mountains in ski season. Sure would suck to have beefy looking tires, yet be spinning and stuck in snow (looking at you NTGs).
- Better NVH. As I spend 95% of my time on road - this pays huge dividends. The KO2s are a firmer and louder tire on account of its harder compound and stiffer/squared sidewalls. Yet it's a very stable tire when I've really loaded up towing for travel.
- No tire is perfect and has the balance of qualities for every user. I haven't found a scenario where I've wanted more performance from this tire yet. 35k miles in and the tread depth is still excellent and will easily go at least 35k more.

 

[TeCKis300]

KO2s are OEM spec on raptors and rubicons. They also come in load range C, which is saves weight where it matters most. Pair them rock warriors and you have a wheel tire combo that’s about equal to stock.

There's more to this story.

More often than not, the same tire in name is not the same tire when they come from the factory versus store bought afterwards. There can be differences, especially in tire compound to the extent that they exhibit different performance characteristics.

I remember reading an article on the design of the Raptor and KO2s. Ford wasn't satisfied with the box stock KO2s provided by BFGoodrich on account of them being too stiff. Ford being a large enough OEM customer, sent them back to create your aforementioned load range C tires specifically for the Raptor.

There's likely differences in compound and tread depth too. Priority for OEMs is fuel economy, stopping distance, noise. With treadwear being a very distant last. All three of those are negatively impacted by increasing tread depth. Generally, more depth equals worse performance for OEM priorities. That normally means that the OEM tires are a little shy on tread depth vs. store bought tire. Compounds for an OEM tire are also focused on best handling and shortest stopping distance possible for objective performance numbers.

 

[terdrocket]

There's more to this story.

More often than not, the same tire in name is not the same tire when they come from the factory versus store bought afterwards. There can be differences, especially in tire compound to the extent that they exhibit different performance characteristics.

I remember reading an article on the design of the Raptor and KO2s. Ford wasn't satisfied with the box stock KO2s provided by BFGoodrich on account of them being too stiff. Ford being a large enough OEM customer, sent them back to create your aforementioned load range C tires specifically for the Raptor.

There's likely differences in compound and tread depth too. Priority for OEMs is fuel economy, stopping distance, noise. With treadwear being a very distant last. All three of those are negatively impacted by increasing tread depth. Generally, more depth equals worse performance for OEM priorities. That normally means that the OEM tires are a little shy on tread depth vs. store bought tire. Compounds for an OEM tire are also focused on best handling and shortest stopping distance possible for objective performance numbers.

In my opinion, the OEM KO2's on the Raptor were awful. Even knowing what you stated above, I haven't gone back to them since, despite loving the KO's I had on a previous vehicle. Maybe I will one day, but for now I am loving these Cooper AT3 LTX's.

 

[RyanR]

And I further prove my case in regards to each persons preference being drastically different with the last post. Here in Texas we don't interact with ice all that often so the need for a tire that handles that condition is pretty much non-existent. I have heard over the years that the Goodyear DuraTrac is a great ice and snow tire so I assume that it is true, but down here in Texas where it's either 95+ with 100% humidity or 75 and flash floods, the DuraTrac doesn't really shine as a top option. Amongst the industry I used to work in (oil and gas) and the fact that they've come as the factory tire on a few vehicles that I have owned in the past, we affectionately call them DuraCraps. They are in fact one of the most purchased hybrid/MT tires in the stock half-ton and 3/4-ton truck sizes (265) for fleet trucks that see regular field use, but that's not because of their stellar performance, it's because of their low price, availability, and decent performance in mud. I could go into the long list of things I hate about the tire but it doesn't matter, because at the end of the day, like I said in my last post, each tire appeals to a certain group for certain reasons, and what Pete in Colorado might need out of a tire most likely won't align with Tommy and what kind of performance he expects from his tires in Central Florida.

Like everything else in life, there is no do-it-all option that is perfect in every scenario and this certainly applies to tires, especially if you live in parts of the country that experience snow and ice three or more months out of the year. If it were me, that's when I would have a set of Blizzaks for the winter and a set of whichever tires I preferred for the rest of the year and the weather and terrain I was most likely to encounter at that time.

Dedicated snows are great. And the performance over even a very good winter rated all terrain is significant. But if you are in the mountains a lot in CO it doesn’t really work that way. You can have snow every month of the year and when it suddenly snows in July there are no plows out to clean up the roads.

For a vehicle like the 200, finding an all terrain that does well is the snow and meets the rest of your needs isn’t perfect but for me it’s a worthwhile trade off.

For past performance cars I’d run summer rubber on them and diligently check the forecast every time I went to find some windy mountain roads. Still got caught in the snow many times and had some white knuckle drives. Luckily the only accident I had was when I pulled over on a pass to get some fresh air and let my blood pressure calm down a bit after 2 hours of wrestling a 2WD car on summer rubber through a Blizzard. Came back from my little walk and my car had slid about 200ft down the road, across both lanes of traffic and was now nestled firmly in a ditch. You also learn to keep a winter coat and gloves in your car year round for that scenario.

 

[Tex68w]

You also learn to keep a winter coat and gloves in your car year round for that scenario.

I have been keeping a blanket, hoodie, gloves, and heat packets in all of my vehicles for years. I carry other items as a standard as well, but those clothing items are must if one were to overnight in the cold.