The Great No-start Mystery (1 Viewer)

[Turd Fergusson]

A tale that’s been told on here many times for sure. I hopped in and tried to fire it up (‘89 FJ62 w/ 5 speed), to no avail. Battery seems to be ok as the volt meter read as it always has. Regardless my first instinct was to put the jump pack on it just in case and try to start it. Same result, no start. No click, everything powers up (radio, buzzer, battery light, engine light) but starter won’t engage. So I tried whacking the starter but that didn’t work either. In not my first or last misstep, I replaced the starter. No dice.

So down the rabbit hole I went. Using a combo of information from here and a service manual, I followed the diagnostic steps with the exception of the neutral start switch as its been converted to a manual. So I’ve got a fusible link on the way from Cruiserparts and an ignition switch from City Racer.

My question is; can I check some other things while I’m waiting for these two items to arrive? I’ve probably got a day or maybe two to tinker.

Thanks in advance, this community has already helped me out tremendously since I bought it!

 

[duncanrm]

I would put a test lamp on the Starter Motor trigger wire and see what happens when you try to start it (safely)..

 

[Turd Fergusson]

Nice, thank you. I’ll check it out when i get a helper.

 

[duncanrm]

Nice, thank you. I’ll check it out when i get a helper.

Sucks having to wait for a helper.. I built myself a little test lamp box that has leads long enough to go around the entire vehicle, magnets to hold it in place. You can look for an earth (-) or battery (+) and its got a buzzer built in too. There's no end of commercial versions of enhanced test lamps of course.

A test lamp is absolutely the single most valuable tool when doing electrical work, or diagnosing electrical faults, on older vehicles.

Test Lamp

8 new items added to shared album

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[g-man]

Check for continuity on the ignition switch

 

[g-man]

Also you can check the heavy gauge wire that runs from battery to starter. Disconnect from battery and test for continuity while flexing the wire. Sometimes starter wire can deteriorate from the inside. Althought I am not familiar with this being a problem with the Land Cruiser. I have seen it happen on old tractors. Also if it got hot/melted or shorted on something the insulation could be melted/compromised. You should inspect it from one end to the other.

 

[g-man]

Clean up your wire terminals where they attach to the starter solenoid and the clean the solenoid ground where it attaches to the frame. Unbolt it and clean the frame metal and the terminal end.

 

[Turd Fergusson]

Clean up your wire terminals where they attach to the starter solenoid and the clean the solenoid ground where it attaches to the frame. Unbolt it and clean the frame metal and the terminal end.

Thanks for the info g-man, unfortunately the new ignition switch arrived before i saw your post so I put it in. Still no start. So I’m waiting until tomorrow for the fusible link. While I’m waiting I’ll recheck the cables.

So I’m trying to wrap my head around this fusible link. If it was the problem, wouldn’t I have insufficient power throughout all of the vehicle systems? The stereo system (all aftermarket) powers up as normal. If it’s the “first line of defense” against overload, wouldn’t the whole rig be effected?

 

[Turd Fergusson]

A test lamp is absolutely the single most valuable tool when doing electrical work, or diagnosing electrical faults, on older vehicles.

Test Lamp

8 new items added to shared album

photos.app.goo.gl

I’m learning that the hard way. Definitely going to look into something like this.

 

[g-man]

try not to randomly replace parts to fix an issue. test, verify its bad, then replace. Also it pays to hold onto old parts. Many times I have found out the hard way that aftermarket parts are inferior and I would have been better off holding onto the original part and repairing it.

Looks like the RED colored wire in the fusible link feeds the headlights and the horn and hazards, the White and green feed the ignition and starter solenoid and other things through the ignition switch ie...line D and E. You can take the fusible link out and continuity test each fuse/wire from plug to plug.

 

[g-man]

check to see if the ign has a hot wire. put your black lead to ground and red lead on the thick wire coming into the back of the ign. I think there is a ignition fuse??? Basically chase the current from the battery to the ign. Also is the b/w wire getting hot coming off the ign when you turn the key to start?

 

[Turd Fergusson]

Well things got interesting yesterday. Per g-man’s advice, I tested all of the leads in the fusible link and they were good. There was power being sent through the ignition plug in all of the appropriate leads, so I started tracking the power from the ignition switch to the battery with emphasis on the black/white wire.

When I got under the rig I think I traced it to what was the neutral start switch. Black/white coming in with a jumper connecting it to black/red going out. With the turn of the key I had 12v on both “sides” of the jumper.

From there however it went up to a relay mounted on the fender wall by the battery (hence the two wires in the following pic:

That’s where it seems to get lost. I’ve got 12v coming in with the turn of the key but not coming out. By coincidence, I had the same aftermarket relay in my toolbox so I swapped it out, but again no dice. I ran out of time last night, so my plan is to eliminate the relay and see if that works. I don’t see a relay on the electrical diagram so I’m really wondering why someone took the time and effort to install it. I’m a little worried about nuking something, but I’m not seeing why the relay is in the mix. Am I off base?

 

[g-man]

so I started tracking the power from the ignition switch to the battery with emphasis on the black/white wire.

did you mean you started tracking the power from the ignition switch to the starter? If you have power at the ignition switch then it's coming from the battery no need to track it back to the battery. You should be tracking it to the starter solenoid.

do you have power going through the ign switch to the black/white wire when you turn the key to start? No need for jumpers just hold your ground on your 12v tester to a metal ground (the 10mm bolts under the dash at either end are grounds and so are the nader pins in the doorwell) select 12v on your tester and put the red lead to the b/w wire coming off the ignition under the column. while someone else turns the key. Looks similar to this one off a 40 series. No need to pierce the wire insulation just touch the solder where the wire is connected to the switch.

When I got under the rig I think I traced it to what was the neutral start switch. Black/white coming in with a jumper connecting it to black/red going out. With the turn of the key I had 12v on both “sides” of the jumper.

Why are you jumping the wires? Jumping means your bring voltage from the battery to a place where no voltage is coming to try and test a starter/radio or device. But you just need to test for current flow, and find out where you are losing it. Just test each wire with a 12volt tester. Either a lamp type or multi tool selected to 12v. If both the b/w and b/r are hot, this is probably because they (PO) bypassed the neutral safety switch and connected them together. In the schematic (yours for fj62) looks like the wires turns run from one to the other after the neutral safety switch. So basically they are the same wire going from ign to starter.

I don't see the NSS in the pic. The blue connector plug does have b/w and b/r wires to it...so where it was cut after the blue plug may be what went to the neutral safety switch. Take the plastic shrink wrap off the two short wires on the end of the blue plug and see if the wires are connected there. They probably should be if this is where the wires were cut to bypass the NSS.

Also I don't see the relay your talking about. Also I noticed the all red wire going to the starter solenoid ...then it turns to b/r (the original wire) So where does the red wire go and does it attach to the original ign wires? Or maybe that relay you were talking about???

 

[Turd Fergusson]

Sorry, I was a little scattered when I posted that this morning.

So b/w has power when the key is turned in the steering column and is unmolested until it disappears into the loom. It reappears under the rig at that blue plug. That pic from under the rig is as I found it; that jumper and the red and yellow wires headed to the relay. Both sides of that jumper (maybe I’m not using that term correctly) have 12v when the key is turned to start position.

The black/red was cut and connects to yellow which heads up to the relay in the following pic. Yellow going into the relay has 12v when the key is turned. Red leaves the relay and connects to the black/red that plugs Into the starter solenoid. That has no power when the key is turned.

The relay 12v connection and ground has been tested and is good.

Bear with me because this relay pic will look a little muddy:
Red/yellow stripe connects to yellow and is 12v for the relay
Yellow comes up from near the blue plug and connects to black and gets 12v when the key is turned.
That red that connects to blue is what goes down and connects to black/red and the starter solenoid plug.
White is ground for the relay.

 

[g-man]

you're ^^^ just quoting my post but I don't see any reply you may have added.

 

[g-man]

I would put a test lamp on the Starter Motor trigger wire and see what happens when you try to start it (safely)..

this is the short b/r wire going to the starter solenoid in your last image the one that is attached to the red wire. do what is suggested ... while in park, have someone turn the key with you under the rig and see if this wire terminal gets 12v.

 

[Turd Fergusson]

you're ^^^ just quoting my post but I don't see any reply you may have added.

Sorry i messed up the quoting hahaha.
Shouldn’t I be able to eliminate the relay and see what happens?

 

[Turd Fergusson]

this is the short b/r wire going to the starter solenoid in your last image the one that is attached to the red wire. do what is suggested ... while in park, have someone turn the key with you under the rig and see if this wire terminal gets 12v.

It doesn’t, I can’t get 12v to leave to relay and go to the starter solenoid.

 

[g-man]

If no current there, then probe the red wire where it is crimped to the b/r wire ...and keep working your way back to the ignition

 

[g-man]

Sorry i messed up the quoting hahaha.
Shouldn’t I be able to eliminate the relay and see what happens?

shouldn't need a relay to a starter solenoid. It is just a trigger wire that needs 12v and little amps. Does the red wire at the solenoid go to the relay?