spheres or springs? (1 Viewer)

[Quade]

Hi Guys

I recently had the spheres replaced with 2nd hand ones due to 1) the cost and 2) the mech saying he had ones that were ok

The car is new to me, so i'm not sure how long the previous owner drove it with buggered spheres

The ride is much better, no more kangarooing on backend/bottoming out easily
However, when accelerating hard, the back end really does sit down, and feels a bit wallowy
Also when i loaded the car, with 80 litres of water in back, it really affected the ride, and felt a little bouncy.
With just me driving, the ride is ok.

After replacing the spheres, the car only felt 100percent when on max sport mode

Is it worth me considering replacing springs to see if this helps, or do you think it's certainly a spheres issue?
(2006, amazon, 133k (miles) - now lives in africa with crappy roads)

 

[Julian Stead]

Have you checked your pressures and set them properly, if the pressures are high in the rear then you might need new springs, also check tire pressures.

 

[Quade]

I've ordered tech stream from the UK, it's getting here on 7th June 16, so I hope to be able to read that then
There are currently no fault codes from the mechs basic machine

 

[feddomw]

While waiting for Techstream, get a 2.5L bottle of Toyota AHC fluid (nothing else!) and flush out your AHC system. Process is in the FAQ and is dead easy.

 

[Quade]

Thanks, I just had new shocks and new AHC fluid as the first mech said that i needed new shocks (he didn't understand AHC!)

The 2nd mech said I my "bellows" were gone, he means actuators/spheres, so he stuck some on he had in stock

I'm probably going to do the rear coil springs next as they do take a beating out here
If that doesn't work I guess its the spheres next

Is there anything else to this system or is that all components?

 

[PADDO]

You may well have air entrained in the system from the previous work, this is very detrimental to damping. It's a crap shoot with the serviceability of the used replacement spheres too as you need a test jig with a calibrated gauge to measure the pressure break points to determine their remaining charge. I suspect your mechanic doesn't have one.
If your coils are originals then they should be replaced as it's pretty much a certainty your rear neutral pressure is excessively high, fronts probably way out too. Without the ability to read pressures, look at the damping system control signals and the AHC specific codes (which don't show up with a basic obd 2 reader) you really can't follow a structured diagnostic path, and throwing parts at the system isn't a plan in my book.
I'd ensure your system is well bled and if you can source new coils do so, or at a minimum procure a pair of spacers which will help lower the rear pressure. The spacers should be installed with new coils for added benefit and get your Techstream up and running so you can diagnose with confidence instead of being forced to guess. There a several system tests you can do to broadly assess the system like the low to high graduation check and the 16 step damper test, but for these to be relevant you need your neutral pressures to be within the design ranges.

 

[Quade]

Thanks Guys

I just did the Lo to Hi Graduation test and i get 10 marks of movement

I'll do the rear coil springs this weekend, and then wait for my cable to come to do a full diagnosis then post back any results

 

[Quade]

So the mech has replaced the springs, he said it does ride better, but still bottoms out with 5 people in there

It looks like i'm going to have to replace the actuators/spheres/globes (too many names!)

I called the parts guy, he says he'll have to ordered them in
BUT, he's saying they come in 2 pieces, the ball part and the upper part?

Is this correct? and what is the difference between them, and do I need both?

Annoyingly the Mech wants me to make a decision today, so either I pay half the cost for broken ones (if they are finished) or bite the bullet and buy new ones ($600 each)

 

[ihadmail]

The globes are one part, they attach to the actuators but I'm uncertain what Toyota calls the actuator.

These are the globes part numbers:
Front 49141-60010
Rear 49151-60010

 

[Quade]

Thanks
So on a car with 130k miles and 10 years old would you suggest that both the globes and actuators need replacing?
Will tech stream be able to tell me whats good and whats bad?

 

[ihadmail]

The easy way to check actuators is to use Techstream to get your neutral pressures in spec, then count the number of graduations change in the fluid reservoir when going from L to H.

With techstream you will also be able to look at the status of the actuators as the system operates. You can see the valves get their open/close signals and the sensor height change as the truck goes up and down.

Paddo has a lot of info about the indications available in techstream.

 

[PADDO]

Damper accumulators are the spheres (globes, gas springs) that screw into the frame rail mounted hydraulic damper actuator assemblies. The rear accumulators are larger than the fronts and as such they have a different part number. I really doubt you require 4 new accumulator spheres if you have 10 graduations in the reservoir (at unknown pressure) but it's your money. The rail mounted hydraulic damper assemblies are not considered a wear item and aren't normally changed. There are several tests including a resistance check of the stepper motor within the actuator assembly to identity if it's failed.

What are your front and rear heights? as measured from the axle center to bottom of the fender. Front should be close to 500mm and rear 525mm. If your vehicle is too low this would allow it to bottom out to easily.

And did your mechanic re bled the system? If you're hesitant to bleed because fluid is in short supply then you (he) can recycle the fresh hydraulic fluid by ensuring the bleeders and pipe are scrupulously clean and discharging the fluid into an equally clean, lint free and dry container through a double layer coffee filter paper. Good for approximately 30 microns of filtration.

 

[2001LC]

PADDO, is that measuring from outside of axle (center of grease cap)?

 

[PADDO]

Yes, center of grease cap to fender bottom ~ 500mm or 19.75 inch.

 

[Quade]

Front is 47.5cm
Back is 50. 5 cm (new springs yesterday)

How does that sound?

 

[ihadmail]

Sounds 20-25cm low all around to me. Fix is adjust your sensors and then check neutral pressures. Adjust torsion bars if needed to correct front neutral pressures. Either live with rear pressures or install rear spring spacers.

 

[PADDO]

^ this. There is approx. 3.5 inches at factory N height between the cone bumper and lower perch (if an Amazon has the same configuration as North America vehicles) so it's not unexpected OP is bottoming out as he's approx. one inch low. The vehicle's AHC/AVS systems need a basic set up: cross level, front and rear heights, neutral pressures corrected.

 

[Quade]

The rear accumulators are larger than the fronts

Do you mean the other way around?

 

[PADDO]

Do you mean the other way around?

No
/

 

[Quade]

Oh, my mechanic said you'd got that bit wrong, I figured it was a typo