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Sloppy steering?

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by dinkleberry, Sep 7, 2003.

  1. dinkleberry

    dinkleberry

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    My 77 40 has had sloppy steering since I got it. I assumed it was worn tie rods. It tends to move right under acceleration and left when I let off (or vice versa I can't remember), and there's a little slop in the wheel. I planned on replacing everything soon.

    Then, my "know it all" neighbor :flipoff2: told me it was because of the diff lockers I had (lock-rite front, detroit rear). ??? ???

    I don't see how that could have anything to do with it, as long as the hubs aren't locked, right?

    Is he just blowin smoke? Or am I missing something here?
     
  2. rusmannx

    rusmannx

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    HIT IT!
    if your hubs are out and your tcase is not engaged (4wd) it should make no difference.
    i had the same problem though. i replaced all of my tie rod ends and that didn't seem to help. i just put up with it.... until i did the power steering.

    you can do do psteering for around $300 (that's about what i spent doing it all myself)
    i would save my nickles until i could fab the powersteering, once you have it, you'll never understand how you lived without it.
     
  3. CruisinGA

    CruisinGA

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    Check your rag-joint (in the steering wheel shaft in between firewall and steering box).
    Your center arm may need a rebuild.
    When I replaced my rag joint it made a world of difference, but still no where near PS.
    If you go with OEM/Minitruck PS you would want to replace all TRE's and rebuild the center arm anyway because it is retained with this PS setup.
    Since I am going with minitruck/oem, I will rebuild my existing manual setup, live with it, and then do PS later.
     
  4. dinkleberry

    dinkleberry

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    It's already got the sag conversion, po did it. :flipoff2: Whether or not it was done right I'm not sure. I've checked all the joints from top to bottom and don't see any that really stand out as being super loose. I'm gonna try and make sure this conversion was done correctly and go from there.

    Thanks :D
     
  5. bobrose

    bobrose

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    Another thought, a friends truck did this kinda thing, check that the steering box itself is loose on its mounts, pitman arm maybe? To check for slop you need to have someone move the steering wheel while you get underneath for a look see. Otherwise the weight of the truck will make all the connections seem tight (if you're trying to move them by hand)
     
  6. hammerhead

    hammerhead

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    To start with, YES, a locker can make a difference in throttle on and off handling characteristics. As for the sloppy steering, let's figure out what the problem is before you start throwing money at it. You said you had a saginaw. Have you adjusted it. Also, have someone wiggle the steering wheel while you watch the steering components to see where the problem is.
     
  7. KNUCKLEDRAGGER

    KNUCKLEDRAGGER

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    I just installed a pitman arm from a junked Cherokee that had about 2" of drop. The relay rod had a very noticeable angle upward 2" ?before and now has an almost level angle now (1/2 low). It seems to have slowed the steering down alittle, you might give it a try (5 bucks at pick a part). I have the Sag PS and some of the same symptoms you described ( no lockers though).

    All the tie rod ends are new and the knuckels rebuilt...I think the only thing left is to adjust the sterring box itself (adjusting screw on the box). If you get yours fixed I'd be glad to hear how you did it.

    ??? Anyone know which way you turn the screw to tighten ? I know that you adjust it slowly, alittle goes along way.
     
  8. hammerhead

    hammerhead

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    If your relay rod is not close to level with axle then you will have bump steer. Short wheelbase vehicles like 40s will have throttle steer also. The cure to that problem is to get your relay running parallel. That only cures one problem that causes those symptoms.
    To adjust saginaw first be sure box is centered. Loosen locknut around screw on top plate of box. Turn screw clockwise till firm then back off 1/8 or so.
     
  9. dinkleberry

    dinkleberry

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    I've got no drop on the pitman, and the relay rod is on a god aweful angle. I think it's actually been cut and welded! WTF?!

    I love my Previous Owner. :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

    I'm gonna try the adjustment on the box today. Hopefully that'll cure some of the slop. I've just gotta find a drop pitman to straighten out that relay rod.

    I'll post results.

    Thanks all.
     
  10. woody

    woody Internet Fireman Staff Member

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    torque wrench and about 2 hours...

    u-bolts, shocks, shackles, spring pins, rod ends, knuckles, wheel bearings, and everything else related to the front axle with a nut/bolt on it. Outta take about 5-6 different sockets and about 2 hours time.

    when done, report back with all the things that were loose.
     
  11. dinkleberry

    dinkleberry

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    How about a impact and a 6 pack 12 pack? :D
     
  12. woody

    woody Internet Fireman Staff Member

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    [quote author=Dinkleberry link=board=1;threadid=5035;start=msg39117#msg39117 date=1063064201]
    How about a impact and a 6 pack 12 pack? :D
    [/quote]

    No...lol...but good idea!!

    Proper torque on some items is VERY important.

    Knuckle studs to 70 ft-lbs (the Haynes book is wrong!!)
    u-bolts to 80+ ft-lbs (I do 100 usually, but 80 is spec IIRC)
    don't recall some of the others, but a torque wrench is important.
     
  13. dinkleberry

    dinkleberry

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    Ok, so I retightened everything to proper torque specs (thanks for the tip on the Haynes being wrong), and adjusted the lash on the box. Found shackles and U bolts loose. Definite improvement in the slop and the bump steer. Gonna try everything above the steering box today. Also gonna hit the junkyard and look for a sag drop pitman.

    I saw a hy steer knuckle arm on SOR for a 79 and up. Anyone know if theres one for 79 down?
     
  14. woody

    woody Internet Fireman Staff Member

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    [quote author=Dinkleberry link=board=1;threadid=5035;start=msg39718#msg39718 date=1063191614]I saw a hy steer knuckle arm on SOR for a 79 and up. Anyone know if theres one for 79 down?
    [/quote]

    I think the only source for a 78-older histeer arm is rockbuggysupply.com Good place, heard lots of good reports on their service and products.
     
  15. 78 One owner

    78 One owner

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    Another source of slop in the steering setup is the way the tie-rod rolls up and down when/where the drag link attaches to the tie-rod. Hammer head modified his so the drag link attaches to the steering arm on the right knuckle. He swears it has completely cured (or nearly cured) his steering probs,without PS too. We are getting ready to do the same to mine. It's a very technical and time consuming process, not your basic do it your selfer. Not much more time consuming and incrementally more labor to do more than one a time. We live in BFE so we don't have alot of spare parts laying around, or the dough to lay down to acquire the parts in order to do small production run. Hammerhead needs some cash ( who doesn't )to do the mods he wants on his outfit. I have my parts for my hi-steer conversion. If we had more parts, participants (pun intended) could get the conversion done quite cheaply. This would make it a bolt on deal. Anybody interested?
    [move] 8)[/move]
     
  16. hammerhead

    hammerhead

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    Actually, what I have is crossover steering. Works great. I am working on a hi-steer set of arms but not ready for production yet. I can do the afore mentioned crossover arm though.
    Check out 4x4 labs. They have a pretty impressive product and do make the pre 79 small bolt pattern.
     
  17. Landpimp

    Landpimp GOLD Star

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    [quote author=Dinkleberry link=board=1;threadid=5035;start=msg38696#msg38696 date=1062950199]
    My 77 40 has had sloppy steering since I got it. I assumed it was worn tie rods. It tends to move right under acceleration and left when I let off (or vice versa I can't remember), and there's a little slop in the wheel. I planned on replacing everything soon.

    Then, my "know it all" neighbor :flipoff2: told me it was because of the diff lockers I had (lock-rite front, detroit rear). ??? ???

    I don't see how that could have anything to do with it, as long as the hubs aren't locked, right?

    Is he just blowin smoke? Or am I missing something here?
    [/quote]

    I dunno.......but your know it all neigbor might just be at least partialy right. Even with the front onlocked the rear Detroit is gonna push you around a bit, I know my buddies 40 with rear Detoit feels like it jumps to the right a few inchs when you gas it or change gears, everything is/was tight as could be in the front end, minimal(for a stock manual box) play(1-2") in the wheel. It didnt do it before the locker but it was a result of the locker......nothing wrong with anything.

    Yeah you might have other stuff wrong as well, like buggered up steering. But part of it is just the nature of the locker IMOP

    John H
     
  18. dinkleberry

    dinkleberry

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  19. 73lndcrsr

    73lndcrsr SILVER Star

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    Find a pitman from a cherokee. It has 2" drop and works well on mine. I paid $3 for mine at the junk yard.
     
  20. dinkleberry

    dinkleberry

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    Does it matter what year saginaw I have? I know they changed in 1977 and I'm pretty sure I have a new one. How do you tell?