Question about brake line fittings, cutting and flaring (1 Viewer)

[jcardona1]

Getting ready to ditch the LSPV in place for a manual proportioning valve up near the master cylinder in the engine bay. I plan to reuse what I can from the stock lines and fittings but I'm a little confused about the types of flare nuts used.

From my research, it appears we have brake lines with a 4.75mm OD, M10x1.0 thread on the flare nuts and a double bubble flare on the ends.

That's great and all, but the ABS actuator has a different type of flare fitting. Another member said this fitting will leak if used in anything aside from the ABS actuator.

Here's the pic, brake line fittings on the left, actuator fitting on the right. Does this fitting on the right have a name? I'm trying to figure out what I need to cut and re-flare in order to install a manual Wilwood valve on the REAR-OUT line of the actuator.

If I can't use these fittings in anything else it will be a lot more cutting and flaring of lines that are attached in the engine bay....and I'm not even sure how I'd do that without a vise!

Mock-up of the Wilwood 260-12627 valve

 

[86tuning]

ABS fittings look like metric/iso flares sometimes called bubble flares. Requires a metric flare tool. Used on many European cars like VWs and whatnot.

They're likely used on the 80 because most abs units of that time were made by Bosch or made under license.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

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[jcardona1]

ABS fittings look like metric/iso flares sometimes called bubble flares. Requires a metric flare tool. Used on many European cars like VWs and whatnot.

They're likely used on the 80 because most abs units of that time were made by Bosch or made under license.

Thanks for the help. I did a ton of research online and I didn't really get anywhere. From the looks of it, "inverted flare" and "double flare" are interchangeable terms, it's the same type of flare. It looks like both of the fittings above are for the double flare, not bubble flare. But the issue is Toyota uses these weird fittings that are longer and have a non-threaded portion at the end. These appear to be used everywhere except for the ABS unit. That's where I'm stuck.

I don't know what fittings to use that will go into my Wilwood valve with 10mmx1.0 threads: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-260-12627

I was able to find these pics online that might help. As you can see here, the Inverted Flare and Metric-Japanese fittings are the same except for the threads. Toyota just happens to use a weird fitting

Here's a better look at the inverted double flare on the LEFT (Japanese) and the ISO Bubble flare on the RIGHT (European vehicles)

Another look

So I know we have double inverted flare lines, no doubt about that. Now I need to figure out which 10mmx1.0 fittings I need to buy in order to go into the Wilwood valve because I don't think the weird Toyota ones will work. Any ideas?

 

[jcardona1]

And to add more, will this fitting here: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-490-711/overview/ work in the Wilwood valve if I double flare the tubing? 0.188" = 4.77mm so it should work for our tubing diameter...

Note the difference of the tips in the Toyota-specific inverted flare tube nut: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-490-710/overview/

Did I just answer my own question?

 

[tirewater]

So I know we have double inverted flare lines, no doubt about that. Now I need to figure out which 10mmx1.0 fittings I need to buy in order to go into the Wilwood valve because I don't think the weird Toyota ones will work. Any ideas?

What flare does the Wilwood valve need? That'll decide the fitting. If the valve accepts a inverted flare & the fitting has the same threads as the valve, why wouldn't the toyota one work?

 

[jcardona1]

What flare does the Wilwood valve need? That'll decide the fitting. If the valve accepts a inverted flare & the fitting has the same threads as the valve, why wouldn't the toyota one work?

I'm not sure, I'll have to check when I get home but I "think" the Toyota ones won't work since they have that longer non-threaded portion and all other inverted flare fittings don't. Toyota must have made the seats/ports longer to accommodate the non-threaded portion of the fittings.

Summit doesn't specify what type of fitting for the Wilwood valve, it just lists the thread...

 

[tirewater]

I'm not sure, I'll have to check when I get home but I "think" the Toyota ones won't work since they have that longer non-threaded portion and all other inverted flare fittings don't. Toyota must have made the seats/ports longer to accommodate the non-threaded portion of the fittings.

Summit doesn't specify what type of fitting for the Wilwood valve, it just lists the thread...

Installation

If the Toyota fittings have the wrong thread pitch or too little thread engagement just use the fittings supplied with the valve.

If the existing brake line is long enough, use a pipe cutter and cut as close to the flare as possible (move the fitting up the pipe). Remove old fitting, slide the new fitting on, reflare the brake line and install.

Before you do this, get some old brake line and practice a few double flares.

 

[jcardona1]

Thanks for the link. But that's a different model number. My Wilwood valve didn't come with any fittings as it's already tapped for M10x1.0 threads...

 

[tirewater]

Thanks for the link. But that's a different model number. My Wilwood valve didn't come with any fittings as it's already tapped for M10x1.0 threads...

Yeah, I didn't look at the top of the PDF, sorry about that.

It is the link you get from Wilwood, from this page:

http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderValves.aspx


The only thing I would worry about is # of thread engagement. You don't want to risk stripping the valve threads.

Personally I'd use the non-Toyota inverted fitting for that application.

 

[jcardona1]

Yeah that's what I'm thinking. I'll buy some of the non-Toyota inverted flare fittings for the Wilwood valve, buy a double flare tool and to re-flare the ends of the line. I'll put up a new thread with the whole write-up once I'm done.

So if anybody runs across this thread:

LEFT: Toyota-specific 'inverted flare' or 'double flare' tube nuts used in all the brake components and tees
RIGHT: Non-Toyota 'inverted flare' or 'double flare' tube nuts used on the ABS actuator

 

[jcardona1]

Putting this here so I can find again easily. Poly Armour brake line part # PAJ312. It's a 12" line that comes pre-flared with the inverted flare and two 10mmx1.0 tube nuts for $4.99. Cheaper than buying individual fittings. If you can't use the line, cut them off and you have two fittings for $5

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d....oap?ck=Search_N0834_-1_-1&pt=N0834&ppt=C0066

 

[08720]

Came across this thread and have a similar question. I noticed a couple sections of scary brake line (driver's side, in front of rear axle where they bend up) and am looking to make replacements. I think I will use the double flare (not bubble correct?) and new M10 fittings. I have sourced the variety that jCardona has pictured on the right. Will these fittings with the double flare seat properly in my LSPV? My LSPV appears to have been salvaged from the titanic. Lots of crusty crap all over it and I don't think I will be able to salvage the fittings.

 

[jcardona1]

Will these fittings with the double flare seat properly in my LSPV?

I haven't tried it myself, but I read that they could not be interchanged. Picture below - fitting on the left is the the Toyota-specific fitting that goes into all tees, elbows and LSPV. The fitting on the right is what goes into the ABS pump. They're both inverted/double flare M10x1.0 thread but Toyota fitting have a longer seat. Give it a try and let us know if it leaks with these shorter fittings, I'd be curious to know!

 

[jcardona1]

What you'll want to buy is a bunch of these: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-490-710/overview/

 

[08720]

Done. Thanks for the quick response. For anyone having replaced these any recommendations? Appears that there is one section that will be difficult to remove by the gas tank. I'm sure when I'm finished I will have wished I had just bought new OEM sections but will be a nice skill and tool set to add to the collection. Thanks, Mike

 

[maxamillion2345]

47* iirc double flare, same as most American cars. M10x1.0 fittings with the 4.75 (3/16) line. You can bend lines by hand around a piece of tubing. I don't see why the nut would make any difference, what seals is the flare on flare ---<<---

I found that with this tool over others I could consistently make good flares. http://m.autozone.com/autozone-mobile/en/accessories/OEM-In-line-flaring-tool-kit/_/N-26gg?id=238197

Every other bar style cheap one was garbage.