If the fit hit the shan (1 Viewer)

[Bogo]

I'd want a form of transport with abundant fuel. You can find wood everywhere.

I'd think horses would be better. They can travel over a much wider variety of terrain. Yeah, you got to keep feeding them and know how to take care of them, but grass is nearly everywhere. I can't say that for trees. Also if things get real desperate, you can eat them.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Why is it not practical? If the world's infrastructure is destroyed then I'd want a form of transport with abundant fuel. You can find wood everywhere. You would not be able to find diesel, WVO or gasoline everywhere.

Let me know how that works out for you in Kansas.

 

[rusty_tlc]

I'd think horses would be better. They can travel over a much wider variety of terrain. Yeah, you got to keep feeding them and know how to take care of them, but grass is nearly everywhere. I can't say that for trees. Also if things get real desperate, you can eat them.

If feral horses can live here they can get by pretty much anywhere.

<serious question>Since the feral ones pretty much take care of themselves how hard can it be to take care of them? </serious question>

And yes, I consider the feral herds that roam within a few miles of my house as a kind of emergency larder. I wouldn't have to get that desperate either.

 

[Mark W]

I think a big part of the difference is that the feral horses are not working... not carrying losds or being ridden... only moving at a pace and distance that they chose.

A working horse has a lot more stress and strain on it than one that s just wandering and eating.

That said... I am not a horse expert at ALL. Just impressions have picked up from friends who know a lot more than I do.

BTW... cold wet climates can be a lot harder on horses than the hot dry ones.... assuming of course that they have food and water in the hot dry!


Mark...

 

[rusty_tlc]

I think a big part of the difference is that the feral horses are not working... not carrying losds or being ridden... only moving at a pace and distance that they chose.

A working horse has a lot more stress and strain on it than one that s just wandering and eating.

That said... I am not a horse expert at ALL. Just impressions have picked up from friends who know a lot more than I do.

BTW... cold wet climates can be a lot harder on horses than the hot dry ones.... assuming of course that they have food and water in the hot dry!


Mark...

Your probably right about that the local horses probably spend most of their time foraging just to eat enough to keep moving. The ones that aren't grazing on the development landscape anyway.

The horses around here get the worst of both climates, hot and dry in summer cold an snowy in winter.
I took this on the way to work one day last winter;

It wouldn't take long for that guy to start looking tasty. He was within a few feet of my truck and just watched as I drove by. Probably hoping for a carrot or apple, locals feed these guys. The ones in the hill have it a lot harder and are usually a lot thinner.

 

[EUROTECH1986535]

New from spam ................ Horse in a can....... Mmmmmmmmmmmm horse the other other meat

 

[nat]

Id like a 55 series with a vortec, winch, a big bull bar(incase of zombies lol) two fuel tanks and solar/deep cell inverter capabilities.
Im bored

Awesome, you just described my rig

 

[Bogo]

<serious question>Since the feral ones pretty much take care of themselves how hard can it be to take care of them? </serious question>

A big issue is their hooves. Since humans upsized them, they have had all sorts of hoof problems. It likely wouldn't be to much issue to make new shoes for them. On the other hand going with smaller horses and having 3 to 5 of them per rider should alleviate much of that issue. When riding all day you switch off from horse to horse. That way you aren't stressing the hooves as bad. The Mongol Warriors did this. Riding in a cart behind also helps, but that has land and route restrictions.

 

[rusty_tlc]

A big issue is their hooves. Since humans upsized them, they have had all sorts of hoof problems. It likely wouldn't be to much issue to make new shoes for them. On the other hand going with smaller horses and having 3 to 5 of them per rider should alleviate much of that issue. When riding all day you switch off from horse to horse. That way you aren't stressing the hooves as bad. The Mongol Warriors did this. Riding in a cart behind also helps, but that has land and route restrictions.

Thanks. How hard is it to break a wild horse?

 

[Bogo]

Thanks. How hard is it to break a wild horse?

I don't know that part of horsing around...

 

[tgreening]

Yep aside from "Road Warriors of the Wastelands" post apocalyptic movies, other than perhaps an initial relocation if you are in an area that has some sort of disaster, your vehicle is a pretty small component of your preparedness.

If you live in large urban areas where basic support food stuffs have to be trucked in daily and you depend on large infrastructure like city water and sewage... and/or surrounded or in close proximity to large populations who are in that situation, then relocating may be a very very good idea.

In that case, you need to get moving before roads are clogged and gas stations are dry. But chances are you will not be making some epic trek covering thousands of miles and weeks of movement.

For those us us who don't live in those urban hells... sitting tight is usually gonna be your best bet in the even of a disaster, natural or otherwise.

Your two feet and a bicycle will serve you a lot better than a fleet of 4x4s and motorcycles


Does not make for exciting movies, but it makes a lot more sense in the real world.



Mark...

What's the matter with you, running around spouting good sense and logic.

When it comes to SHTF (whatever that really is. No one's been able to tell me) I think people watch too many movies. I hear guys all the time talking about all the crap they've got loaded in their Bug Out Vehicle, the 10 years supply of food (loosely speaking), and the gun store quantity of weapons and ammo they have accumulated.

If "bugging out" what are you going to do when the fuel runs out, slug it out with other like minded folks at the truck stop for your next tank full? While your family waits patiently in the car I guess.

If you decide to sit tight and fight off the hordes trying over run your fortress I have news for you. You're going to die. They either will over run you, or just burn you out for spite if they can't. In either case it's a losing proposition for you.

For the record I do believe you'd be better to sit tight for most situations, but ready to move and move quick if necessary. I don't believe in the SHTF scenario as most people apparently think of it, which seems to be of the end of times apocalyptic variety, and if I did I certainly wouldn't be planning for grand cross country expeditions and epic battles. Where are you driving to? If you can get their by vehicle so can someone else, and odds are wherever your secret vehicle accessible hidey spot is, somebody else knows it's there as well. Who are you going to fight with all those weapons? Foreign invaders? Terrorists (really?)? ZOMBIES? What are your wife and kids doing while you're playing Rambo? What are they going to do when you inevitably go down?

I'd run. As far as I could get on a tank and maybe some cans, and then it would be back country on foot with what could be carried on our backs with only a handful of useful weapons spread across the group. That's the short version, but as I said, I don't really believe in that scenario.

In any case it should be evade as much as possible and fight as last resort.

 

[GAS-A-LOT!]

So I did not read the whole thread but here goes...

Just your regular old trail/street rig in working condition. A two weeks worth of food. (typ overland style).
And a destination (if you live in the cities) That's about it.

You stay at home with your preps, Heck my survival preps came in handy when I lost my job 3 years ago. It took a month for unemployment to kick in. During that month, we lived off our pantry and kept cash that would normally have been used for groceries. And having a Costco membership over the years did help cuzz we did not even have to worry about tooth paste, soap or anything really. So it was more like a vacation and we enjoyed all of the free time we now had. We still grilled outside (couple of propane tanks are part of our preps) as if nothing had happened. Our diets did not change cuzz our preps consisted of pasta, beans, rice, canned tomato sauces (El Salvadorian cuisine is heavy on the tomato side) And since we keep a stocked freezer, minimal protein was bought towards the end. We don't bother with MRE's or the like (anyone remember c-rations? Yuk) becuase then it would have just been miserable.

Any ways, if its something like your city being run over by zombies, then that's when your "destination" would come in handy. I've got family that lives in smaller cities than mine, so what ever happens in Los Angeles, it would be less there. Fontana, Palmdale, Lancaster, Tehachapi. That is were I would go to wait out the zombie Apocalypse because I have family there. Or just your typical LA Riot. HAHA, we've had two of those and we are due for another one any day now.

I'm just saying, if you ever plan to do a "Red Dawn" scenario, you will go hungry and die. Because the rest of the population will be hunting what ever wild game is left in the local hills.
Soooooooo, a Bug out location would be in order.

Cheers.

 

[skidplate]

I've always thought that the Rokon was the ultimate WTSHTF vehicle. Hollow wheels can carry 4 gal. gas or water each. We always carry fuel up front and water in the back. 2 wheel drive will go where you cant walk. First pic is the new version with Kolher 4 stroke, the others are early seventies with Chrysler 2 stroke.

 

[rusty_tlc]

I have always been fascinated by the Rokon, until I saw one on the trail one time. They are one noisy piece of equipment. That front chain drive makes one hell of a racket.

 

[inthewall]

Thanks. How hard is it to break a wild horse?

Depending on the age, if you adopt them early enough they are the same as a domestic horse. I have some friends that use a lot of them on their ranch.

 

[SNLC]

I already have the truck for when the "world ends"!

It will go anywhere I point it around here. Decent range since it is a diesel and I can carry 10 extra gallons of fuel with me or for that matter just put a 50gal drum on my light trailer and go. I used to have this other one though which would be nearly as good, not as good just nearly!!

and if the world ends (not to worried about terrorists) I grab my guns, my survival gear, jump in my truck and drive as far into the hills as I can get. Build a shelter and start hunting.

Unlikely I would have to do that though because Jackson Hole is a tight knit community. I believe people here would band together and survive. Plenty of cows and elk and moose to eat for years!


More than likely though when the world ends it will be Yellowstone blowing up and then I will be ash in a matter of seconds so none of it matters anyways!

 

[SNLC]

I've always thought that the Rokon was the ultimate WTSHTF vehicle. Hollow wheels can carry 4 gal. gas or water each. We always carry fuel up front and water in the back. 2 wheel drive will go where you cant walk. First pic is the new version with Kolher 4 stroke, the others are early seventies with Chrysler 2 stroke.

A bit off topic but that is one of only very few vehicle to ever drive the Darien Gap! A couple in Idaho in the 1970s and 1980s tackeld the Darien in both a full sized truck (failed) a jeep (suceeded) and on that motorcycle (2x I think).

If you like expedtions there is awesome stuff to read from these folks....here is their website. I quote them....

" We had spent a total of 741 days to travel 125 miles, from the end of the Pan-American Highway at Yaviza, Panama to the beginning of a road system in Colombia at the town of Rio Sucio on the Atrato River, all on land. We remained true to the original goal and found an all-land route through the notorious Darien Gap. We crossed rivers, but never resorted to traveling up or down them."


Darien Gap

EPIC! Truely EPIC!!

 

[mattafact]

As far as food is concerned one could survive solely off beans and rice (or pretty much any combination of legume and grain) to give you all 9 of your essential amino acids, along with a multi vitamin that contains minerals. It wouldn't exactly be tasty or healthy in the long term (lack of many micronutrients) but you could survive off that as long as you had enough water. Another benefit of them is that in their dry state they take up relatively little room and store well if you rotate them semi frequently.

I used to work as a consultant dietitian in nursing homes mostly and state law required them to have at least a week's worth of food and water for disasters. Some of the smaller homes just kept a few cases of Boost or Ensure in the garage along with a ton of water.

 

[Off Duty]

Anything that is self-sufficient, robust, well maintained and has very minimal electronics. Computers and other Integrated Circuits would be fried in the case of an EMP event so computer controlled vehicles would be dead.

I love my 62, and with the proper "fixes" (diesel, etc) I'd be fine with it.
My preference though, might well be an older Suburban, mid-late 80's, straight axle, power it with a mech. diesel, standard trans (again, no electronics), and I'd be good to go.
As others have mentioned, you're probably not going to go all that far, and I can pack a lot of crap in/on a Suburban and still get my wife, both kids, the grand baby and the cat (back up rations The cat ought to start getting concerned about a month out)

Besides an EMP taking everything electronic out.
A diesel that can run on veg. oil and such would be the ideal motor.
You can scavange fuel pretty much anywhere in a time of major crisis

That's what I like about a mech. diesel.

Working on mine...

Bug out or otherwise, that's a nice rig!

i have been running a 6.2l diesel on old motor oil and trans fluid for a while now. wvo is to hard to get in my neck of the woods. if things went really bad to many folks know about wvo for it to be a viable fuel source for long. but there will be a lot of abandon cars with a lot of atf, ps fluid, engine oil etc. just filter and heat.

Good point.
As someone else mentioned, the scrap yards usually drain their vehicles, but there will probably be enough abandoned vehicles sitting around to fuel the need (no pun intended) for a while.
All the more reason (that and fire) that I would rather have a diesel.

What's the matter with you, running around spouting good sense and logic.

When it comes to SHTF (whatever that really is. No one's been able to tell me) I think people watch too many movies.

You got that right!

For the record I do believe you'd be better to sit tight for most situations, but ready to move and move quick if necessary.

Absolutely!

I don't believe in the SHTF scenario as most people apparently think of it, which seems to be of the end of times apocalyptic variety, and if I did I certainly wouldn't be planning for grand cross country expeditions and epic battles.

I'm not an end of the world type, but I don't fool myself into believing that we're immune to a dirty bomb or other bio/chem attack either.

A bigger problem for us here, is hurricanes. We're entering "the season" again, and there's always the threat of another Andrew or similar storm.
If we have to leave, I want to be able to take everyone with me that needs to go in one vehicle.

Frankly, if you stay and it's that bad, it's likely your truck won't do you that much good when it's over anyway.

Where are you driving to? If you can get their by vehicle so can someone else, and odds are wherever your secret vehicle accessible hidey spot is, somebody else knows it's there as well. Who are you going to fight with all those weapons? Foreign invaders? Terrorists (really?)? ZOMBIES?

Personally, it's not a matter of having a "secret place" as it is a matter of convenience.
You can get out of the damage area or impact area (hurricanes) much quicker, and pack more out, by vehicle than you can on foot, horseback or bike, but only if you've planned your route in advance and taken into consideration all possible obstacles.
Don't forget about human obstacles....police and military roadblocks and such when making your plans.
Cops like orderly evacuations. Order usually amounts to SLOW, so plan ahead.

Besides, if necessary, we could live in/out of the Suburban if we needed to.

What are your wife and kids doing while you're playing Rambo? What are they going to do when you inevitably go down?

My kids are older and my son would be right there beside me!
My daughter and wife I would hope, would be covering themselves and the baby and getting ready to dede the hell out of there!
My wife is a 30 year nurse and a pretty damned good shot, so that helps.

I'd run. As far as I could get on a tank and maybe some cans, and then it would be back country on foot with what could be carried on our backs with only a handful of useful weapons spread across the group. That's the short version, but as I said, I don't really believe in that scenario.

I pretty much agree.
A post apocalyptic society as most people envision, is going to be a real PITA for quite a while. I have no doubt that it would boil down to the strong and the prepared that survive.

And you'll need a very different mentality to survive. Right and wrong would be blurred by the need for shelter, safety and survival and our value system will take a back seat for a while.
As for weapons, get them, you may need them.
Know how to function them in the dark, repair them as necessary and become very proficient.
I'd keep on board what I could carry safely and comfortably on foot and as much ammo as I felt useful. Wouldn't want to leave things laying around that could later be used against me, and the money saved in preparation could be better spent.

I'm not going to start a freaking war, nor do I necessarily want to engage anyone with the family in the truck! It's very bad MOJO when that happens.
Personal/family protection, varmits and food. That's all I need them for.
As you mentioned, if you're out numbered and/or out gunned, it's probably time to leave

In any case it should be evade as much as possible and fight as last resort.

A perfect summation IMHO

...You stay at home with your preps, Heck my survival preps came in handy when I lost my job 3 years ago. It took a month for unemployment to kick in. During that month, we lived off our pantry and kept cash that would normally have been used for groceries. And having a Costco membership over the years did help cuzz we did not even have to worry about tooth paste, soap or anything really. So it was more like a vacation and we enjoyed all of the free time we now had. We still grilled outside (couple of propane tanks are part of our preps) as if nothing had happened. Our diets did not change cuzz our preps consisted of pasta, beans, rice, canned tomato sauces (El Salvadorian cuisine is heavy on the tomato side) And since we keep a stocked freezer, minimal protein was bought towards the end. We don't bother with MRE's or the like (anyone remember c-rations? Yuk) becuase then it would have just been miserable.

Depending on the scenario, that's probably a great solution.
Think about it. Regardless of where you live, you probably know your "hood" better than any place else
Points of ingress/egress, water sources, food supplies, shelter, travel routes, etc.
Even with total devastation, you can probably find a landmark or 2 for reference.
I recall going to S. Fla after Andrew blew through
Even though I'd putz'd around down there off and on for years, I was totally lost due to the devastation. Not a good position to be in.

...and if the world ends (not to worried about terrorists) I grab my guns, my survival gear, jump in my truck and drive as far into the hills as I can get. Build a shelter and start hunting.

I'm headed for the beach
Ok, maybe not, but hey, waterfront property should be relatively cheap, as in free about then
Let me see....a waterfront (Gulf side of course) condo, penthouse suite of course
Up high, good view of the surrounding area from the crows nest (set a watch schedule), high ground, much easier to defend, difficult access from below, and really only 3 sides to worry about unless the vikings attack from the sea again

Unlikely I would have to do that though because Jackson Hole is a tight knit community. I believe people here would band together and survive. Plenty of cows and elk and moose to eat for years!

That's the beauty of a tight knit, solid community. Not so much "I" thinking and more "We." And there is still power in numbers, right?

As far as food is concerned one could survive solely off beans and rice (or pretty much any combination of legume and grain) to give you all 9 of your essential amino acids, along with a multi vitamin that contains minerals. It wouldn't exactly be tasty or healthy in the long term (lack of many micronutrients) but you could survive off that as long as you had enough water. Another benefit of them is that in their dry state they take up relatively little room and store well if you rotate them semi frequently.

Peanut butter works too.
Good source of protein, fat/carbs (which you'll burn off running, digging, etc.), long lasting and easy to pack. Either way, you'll need water.

More than likely though when the world ends it will be Yellowstone blowing up and then I will be ash in a matter of seconds so none of it matters anyways!

I know what you mean.
I'm 30 minutes North of MacDill AFB, home of SOCOM, etc., 20 north of downtown (a great target) and 15 north of the Tampa Airport.
If the proverbial man made SHTF, I wouldn't even see the mushroom cloud

Hopefully though, I'll have just enough time for this:

or

 

[Off Duty]

So what happened?
Did the SHTF and no one told me?