Builds Gerry's Build thread: "If it happens again I'm buying an Abrams" (4 Viewers)

[kevgentile]

Also, If you have too much poly material over the bush itself the bushings will bind up against the frame mounts. The rate/speed of articulation/droop will be slowed down.

I've seen a lot of older torsion bar Porsche track cars roll through the shop that used a lot of poly kits. When set up on a lift the suspensions were real slow to drop vs heims or standard rubbers.

Find yourself a perfectly flat surface and tape down some 180 grit emory or regular sand paper and knock some of the material off.
We have a large 150 pound granite stone in the machine room that I use all the time. Anything from valve shims to thermo housings.

 

[MongooseGA]

I'm guessing the other side is the same dimensions? Maybe it's a one off mistake by Superpro.

I'd hesitate to force them in since the pickup point will need to spread to accommodate the extra material and more so because the poly's won't compress like a rubber bushing.

If the sleeve/bush is the same width as the oem unit, that tells me the bushing itself is too wide.

You inspired me to go take some measurements.

Original bushing alone, without the rubber spacer. 90mm (slightly under as the caliper went into the grooves a bit)

Original bushing with the rubber spacer (spacer lives on the front side of the front bushing). 91.2mm

Crush sleeve

The bushings installed in the arm. 95mm

The opening of the mounting tabs on the truck side. 85ish mm.

It is not at all unlikely my mounting tabs have been bashed, but if that were the case, I would have expected the arms to be difficult to remove.

 

[MongooseGA]

Also, If you have too much poly material over the bush itself the bushings will bind up against the frame mounts. The rate/speed of articulation/droop will be slowed down.

I've seen a lot of older torsion bar Porsche track cars roll through the shop that used a lot of poly kits. When set up on a lift the suspensions were real slow to drop vs heims or standard rubbers.

Find yourself a perfectly flat surface and tape down some 180 grit emory or regular sand paper and knock some of the material off.
We have a large 150 pound granite stone in the machine room that I use all the time. Anything from valve shims to thermo housings.

I have a bench sander I can use. But now I'm measuring the pieces individually, it looks to me like even the crush sleeve may be too long. Or I'm an idiot. Either are possible.

 

[kevgentile]

90 mm vs 90.1 is probably close enough to fit the bush. Most mounts will deflect/collapse after bolt torque. I've done sooo many control arms over the last 25 years and have had to tweak a little here and there.

The 95 mm on the bushing is def not right though.

 

[MongooseGA]

90 mm vs 90.1 is probably close enough to fit the bush. Most mounts will deflect/collapse after bolt torque. I've done sooo many control arms over the last 25 years and have had to tweak a little here and there.

The 95 mm on the bushing is def not right though.

What do you think of the 85mm tab spacing vs the 90/91 of the bushing/crush sleeve? Besides measuring, I also tried to slide the crush sleeve in to the mount and it was a nogo.

 

[kevgentile]

What do you think of the 85mm tab spacing vs the 90/91 of the bushing/crush sleeve? Besides measuring, I also tried to slide the crush sleeve in to the mount and it was a nogo.

The mounts would only have to flex roughly 2.5mm per side which is marginal. If it was a fully boxed section I could see there being a problem. The fact that the oe bush is basically the same size and was fitted to the truck I'd say it's a go. This is a case when a small 5 pound problem solver comes into play. I've got my favorite shorty sledge sitting in the bottom of a cart that gets used a lot.

Trying to tap the bush in by itself will be a bit more difficult than when the unit is fully assembled. I say knock the poly down flush, assemble to the arm and then try to fit again.

 

[MongooseGA]

The mounts would only have to flex roughly 2.5mm per side which is marginal. If it was a fully boxed section I could see there being a problem. The fact that the oe bush is basically the same size and was fitted to the truck I'd say it's a go. This is a case when a small 5 pound problem solver comes into play. I've got my favorite shorty sledge sitting in the bottom of a cart that gets used a lot.

Trying to tap the bush in by itself will be a bit more difficult than when the unit is fully assembled. I say knock the poly down flush, assemble to the arm and then try to fit again.

Is your suggestion to knock it down from the outside edges (basically removing the bevel), or the inner edge of the flange to make the two halves meet inside? Imagine the latter would be a lot more difficult to do cleanly.

 

[kevgentile]

You might have to assemble the other bushing to the arms to locate exactly which side of the poly you'll need to shave. Don't want to do the wrong side. Would be nice to keep the chamfered edges too, will help in fitting to the frame. But cutting down from the inside without a mill will be a chore.

 

[kevgentile]

with a little luck you'll need to hit both sides. In that case going outside is fine since it's only a couple mil and will leave a bit of the chamfer.

 

[MongooseGA]

That was my thought as well. Get the #2 side lined up and mark where the contact issue is on the #1 side.

I'll work on this in the morning. I also sent a contact request to SuperPro and linked the thread.

 

[kevgentile]

That was my thought as well. Get the #2 side lined up and mark where the contact issue is on the #1 side.

I'll work on this in the morning. I also sent a contact request to SuperPro and linked the thread.

Sounds good, you'll get this knocked out. I'll check back tomorrow. Cheers!

 

[LJE]

FWIW, when I did the LCAs/UCA in my Sequoia with Siberian bushings, they were also slightly (though, not 5mm longer, more like 2.5mm total IIRC) than my original bushings. I didn't really understand it either - seems like it wouldn't be that hard to get it right the first time? Haha. In my case, I just bent the ears ever so slightly (1.25mm/side).

 

[kevgentile]

FWIW, when I did the LCAs/UCA in my Sequoia with Siberian bushings, they were also slightly (though, not 5mm longer, more like 2.5mm total IIRC) than my original bushings. I didn't really understand it either - seems like it wouldn't be that hard to get it right the first time? Haha. In my case, I just bent the ears ever so slightly (1.25mm/side).

As long as there's enough room and the durometer rating is low enough to "squish" then it usually will work. The bush has to be the limiter though so the arm can work through its near normal speed and range of motion and with very minimal binding.

 

[MongooseGA]

As long as there's enough room and the durometer rating is low enough to "squish" then it usually will work. The bush has to be the limiter though so the arm can work through its near normal speed and range of motion and with very minimal binding.

To clarify, the bushing should be at least as long as the crush sleeve, if not a little longer?

 

[kevgentile]

To clarify, the bushing should be at least as long as the crush sleeve, if not a little longer?

It's really dependent on each manufactures design. Typically the center bush fits really tight into the poly and the bush is what gets tightened up against the mounting location, not the poly material itself. So, either they are at the same dimension or the bush is slightly longer. If the poly is longer and has no where to go it will induce binding. On a track day car one can get away with it since there is less movement, not ideal of course, but it works. Shock dampening will be negatively affected. On pure race vehicles, heims are used to allow as free of movement as possible to allow shocks to do there job, and of course no flex.

Run "poly suspension bushings" in your search engine and run through the images and you'll see that prob 9 out of 10 are with a longer bush.

 

[kevgentile]

Remember, the poly bushing is retained by the bush not the frame. It is designed to rotate on the bush and not held captive by the frame.

 

[MongooseGA]

Remember, the poly bushing is retained by the bush not the frame. It is designed to rotate on the bush and not held captive by the frame.

Got it. That gave me the mental image I needed. Thanks!

 

[kevgentile]

Hey Goose, I was just thinking and as simple as it is it never dawned on me. Just shave down the inner sections of the poly's where they mate together. This way you retain the full chamfered edge and outer thickness for durability.

 

[kevgentile]

Sorry, Ignore that last post. I forgot that you were already mated up against the control arm, so no more room to move inward.

 

[MongooseGA]

It's in! I'm sure SuperPro is going to love reading this.

OK so here's what went down today:

I tried to get the crush sleeve placed in to the mount by itself. No go. It's only a tiny bit too wide, but too wide nonetheless. I put it up against the 90° flat surface on my bench sander and took off maybe a mil. I also chamfered the shoulders to aid in install.

Then I test fit everything on the arm and noted where my clearance issues with the poly were. I ended up cutting down each half, with a little more coming off the fat (front) side. I think I took off about as much as there was bevel, then added my own bevel to the newly shortened sections.

With a little trial and error, I finally got the sweet spot. Then a combination of a floor jack, 7lb persuader, some tapered punches, and a 4' pry bar got me in to position. I put the spindle back on, attached TRE and upper BJ, jacked the whole shebang to ride height and torqued that mother down. My torque wrench goes to 150, the LCA bolts call for 166-170 depending who you ask, so I clicked the wrench at 150 and gave it 3 more agga-daggas with my impact. Should be good to go.

I had to take a break to feed my fur people and have a beer, but all that's left for the DS is to put in the CV retaining clip, all the cotter pins, and install the torsion bar.

Oh, and then the passenger's side.

This bitch better ride/ feel great.