Dave From Toyota - What We Learned In Breck About The 200... (2 Viewers)

[GordJ]

I prefer


I bought the LC over the LX because of the suspension even though at the time I preferred the LX in every other way. AHC is nice but disconnects the driver from the road and is terrible in parking in tight spots.

Interesting. I have an '08 LC that I put over 200,000 miles on and a '14 LX with about 20,000 of my miles and I have never felt 'disconnected' in the LX. In fact, I bought the LX for the AHC (trailer towing) partly and I have found it to be a lot more usable than the KDSS when getting off ferries in the North West Territories or hitching/unhitching boat trailers in the yard. Whenever I get into the LC now I am surprised at how much effort it takes to climb up into the truck compared to the LX which drops down to let me out.
And the parking? You'll have to explain that to me.

 

[Reckless]

When I was buying my LC, I drove over to the neighborhood Lexus dealer and test drove an LX with the LC (I wanted the LX over the LC because of the fancier leather/stereo/badge). I parked them next to each other and had to reverse them out of their spots back to back by chance. I noticed that I had a much harder time reversing the LX. The LC was alot easier because of the springs and even pulled a tight reverse cut much more smoothly then the LX (The arc was really tight). With the LX, I had to keep glancing over my shoulder 3-4 times (checking reverse camera too), whereas in the LC I was able to pull it out easy like a car. That was the deciding factor in why I bought the LC instead of the LX. I actually first preferred AHC as I had it on my 100, but remember how much easier the car became to drive hard once i ripped it out (it also became bumpier in the 100 with the Slee 1.5" lift kit with heavy spring). At the time I convinced myself that I will make up for the lack of AHC by buying the OME BP-51 kit. Now I am too concerned about losing ride comfort to get it.

There are times I consider buying an LX as a second 200 but back off when I remember that incident. I do like the look of the new LX, it does catch my eye but I love my RW KO2's and not sure if I would be the guy to put AT/MT tires on a LX.

 

[hobbes]

I'd have been curious what their size, weight, and most of all, price point is (if he knew).

Year........NADA List....2017 inflation adj dollars
1977 LC..$ 6078........$25213 (US)
1987 LC..$17196.......$37571 (US)
1997 LC..$41068.......$62516 (US)
2017 LC..$84775.......$OMFG (all currencies)

Seems the leasing crowd is much the target now. Be nice to see them come back to more the 80 series price area.

 

[TonyP]

I can't foresee a $20k price reduction on a new model unless it comes without a drivetrain.

 

[hobbes]

Neither can I.

Just wish there was some price distance between the LC and the LX, with the LC being more the midpoint between the 150 series and the LX. Obviously, based on historical trends it's only going to go higher. Elsewhere, they've definitively shot down the "poverty pack" idea, which I guess is what I'm arguing for. But I freely admit, and accept, I'm not not their target market any longer.

 

[TeCKis300]

When I was buying my LC, I drove over to the neighborhood Lexus dealer and test drove an LX with the LC (I wanted the LX over the LC because of the fancier leather/stereo/badge). I parked them next to each other and had to reverse them out of their spots back to back by chance. I noticed that I had a much harder time reversing the LX. The LC was alot easier because of the springs and even pulled a tight reverse cut much more smoothly then the LX (The arc was really tight). With the LX, I had to keep glancing over my shoulder 3-4 times (checking reverse camera too), whereas in the LC I was able to pull it out easy like a car. That was the deciding factor in why I bought the LC instead of the LX. I actually first preferred AHC as I had it on my 100, but remember how much easier the car became to drive hard once i ripped it out (it also became bumpier in the 100 with the Slee 1.5" lift kit with heavy spring). At the time I convinced myself that I will make up for the lack of AHC by buying the OME BP-51 kit. Now I am too concerned about losing ride comfort to get it.

There are times I consider buying an LX as a second 200 but back off when I remember that incident. I do like the look of the new LX, it does catch my eye but I love my RW KO2's and not sure if I would be the guy to put AT/MT tires on a LX.

I'm trying to understand this and can't wrap my head around it. Parking lot speeds are not typically a place where the suspension is highlighted (or makes any difference at all). The suspension is not articulating, and the suspension/steering geometry is identicle between the two sister platforms. There should be no discernible difference - caveat at normal height.

That said, the LX570 could have been in "L" mode, where the suspension geometry IS slightly different. I say slightly, because I personally cannot discern any steering feel difference from backing out in L vs normal ride heights. In H, it IS noticeably different because of caster geometry changes. Perhaps you were backing up in high mode? Side note is that statically lifted LC's would have to deal with this issue too. Alignment can be done to help it (along with upper arms), but generally, a lifted LC will have to deal with some level of undesirable geometry/steering feel, with more aggressive lifts perturbing this more.

The likely other thing you're feeling is VGRS (variable gear ratio system). It's transparent in use and generally only noticed by the most discerning driver, between high and low speed, that steering requires less input at low speeds. But I believe the Land Cruiser also has this variable ratio steering setup, although I don't think it's branded as VGRS?

 

[hobbes]

Both vehicles have an identical turn radius according to Edmunds.

 

[Reckless]

My LC is 2009 and I was in a newer LX (16-17). Maybe it was the wheel/tire combo? BTW, I drove myself crazy trying to pick between the two. I went to at least 8 different dealerships and test drove various years/models. It worked out for me in the end because I am happier in my LC with RW/KO2s/Slee Sliders and push bar/chin guard. I haven't had time but I wanted to test drive another LX for the 6th time before considering another 200. Although I am debating between another 200 or Tesla with full autonomous driving capability (I'd prefer a VW microbus with self driving). It would be really nice if Toyota included that feature on the 300.

I thought AHC acts much differently at very, very low speeds, like extra stiff?

 

[TeCKis300]

Both vehicles have an identical turn radius according to Edmunds.

Yup, and that is expected. VGRS only changes the required driver input/effort, rather than any outward change in steering radius.

 

[TeCKis300]

Thanks for this write-up! It's always great to hear an inside perspective

- What power plant is being developed for the 300 series LC?
-- This is interesting - Dave alluded to there definitely being a new motor under development for the 300. He clearly knew things he was not at liberty to tell us here, but I took his hedging to mean they are probably looking at some kind of turbo powerplant.

I wouldn't be surprised given the industry trends.

As much as I am a purist, I do think turbo will be a good thing for this platform. Turbo's have the effect of bringing great low end and mid-range torque. Not out of line with what we're looking for. It also is an indirect strategy for adjustable compression, so potentially better efficiency at various loads.

Lots of enthusiasts clamor for diesels. I think most people forget that part of the diesel architecture has almost always been turbo's. So no reason to be adverse to it on a gasser motor, especially for a wider torque band and more efficiency.

 

[TonyP]

Plus, tuning options are greatly increased with a factory turbo engine. I'm looking for to seeing what they come up with. He did slip in "380hp and above" being their goal.

 

[onemanarmy]

I would have liked to hear why we don't get a stripped down version of the LC here in the states. They are already being made, just import them here. No extra costs.

They could kill off the Sequoia and offer a cloth seat, coil spring LC at the same price point of the Sequoia, and also produce the blinged out 80k version.

 

[GordJ]

Both vehicles have an identical turn radius according to Edmunds.

And according to Gord.
Absolutely no difference between the '08 and the '14 forward or backward, low or high, but the ride in the '14 is nicer than the '08. I have 5000+ miles towing a 25' travel trailer on both and the AHC is far superior over the air bags, the boat is happy behind either and my 16' "off road camping" trailer has no preference either. I don't know what made the difference in the LX Reckless drove but it hasn't shown up yet in mine. Maybe the newer models changed something?

 

[TeCKis300]

And he prefers the conventional Land Cruiser suspension over AHC

I didn't hear his words directly, but I agree with this in the context of customization, extreme durability, and serviceability in the field. I do remember lots of guys getting frustrated with the system in the 100-series. Back when there was an infancy in knowledge on how to modify it. The original trends were how to trick it and defeat it for various purposes, only to fail. With more time, the community there has learned how to take advantage of it with complementing mods to great effect.

The way I read this:

And he prefers the conventional Land Cruiser suspension over AHC [because it can be ripped out]

Let's face it, none of you guys are running the stockLand Cruiser suspension. So this isn't a question of LC suspension > LX suspension. It is because you can replace it with whatever you like, because stock is inadequate when modded with armor. More power to you! For those that don't want to rip it out, AHC is certainly capable and durable, except for the most extreme use cases.

 

[TonyP]

I would have liked to hear why we don't get a stripped down version of the LC here in the states. They are already being made, just import them here. No extra costs.

They could kill off the Sequoia and offer a cloth seat, coil spring LC at the same price point of the Sequoia, and also produce the blinged out 80k version.

Where is there a stripped 200 with the 5.7?

 

[onemanarmy]

^Would be no problem for Toyota to produce it. They already have all the parts, so just mix and match...and bam...you have a 5.7 LC with cloth seats, no sunroof, basic suspension, and a radio, if thats what you wanted.

 

[mcgaskins]

^Would be no problem for Toyota to produce it. They already have all the parts, so just mix and match...and bam...you have a 5.7 LC with cloth seats, no sunroof, basic suspension, and a radio, if thats what you wanted.

Great idea that would never work in the US. One look at how luxurious pickups have become and how well they sell in the US shows that to be the case. Also I'm sure one of the main reasons the people on this board bought the 200 is because they're nice as well as capable. I know I for one wanted something that was luxurious, comfortable and rugged at the same time.

 

[LBridges]

... I know I for one wanted something that was luxurious, comfortable and rugged at the same time.

After a couple of 4Runners and an FJ Cruiser, the wife & I considered getting another 4Runner (maybe a TRD pro) and at the same time something like an Avalon for highway cruising. But we took a test drive in a '16 LC and decided to combine the goals and get a new LC - for exactly the reasons quoted above.

 

[hobbes]

Great idea that would never work in the US.

Correct. It would barely sell. But the option to order it would be nice, then they aren't sitting around on the dealer lot. But obviously not happening.

 

[TonyP]

^Would be no problem for Toyota to produce it. They already have all the parts, so just mix and match...and bam...you have a 5.7 LC with cloth seats, no sunroof, basic suspension, and a radio, if thats what you wanted.

Well then get Mr Toyoda on the horn and tell him. Apparently you know more about boosting sales than a multi-billion dollar corporation.