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Clear coat is orange peeling...need advice

Discussion in 'Paint and Body' started by swamprunner, May 5, 2007.

  1. swamprunner

    swamprunner

    Messages:
    993
    Location:
    In The Brine
    I'm definitely not an expert at painting so any help would be appreciated. I'm currently painting my 87 turbo pickup which is a work truck. I don't need a show finish but one without orange peel would be nice. The color is dune tan not that it should matter. I believe it might be the tip in my gun? I'm currently using an hvlp home depot $80 special with a 1.4 tip. Do I need to get a larger tip. The gun shot the primer and base coat fine. The basecoat looked great before the clear went on. The only way I could get the clear to lay down was to shoot an extremely wet coat and then it ran.
  2. pontiota

    pontiota

    Messages:
    80
    Location:
    Sacramento CA
    I'm also not an expert but I have shot a little paint, Your tip should like its just right for a clear.
    If its cold and acting like the tips to small you might try and use a small amout of thinner.
    You might just not be putting it on wet enough, there is a fine line between sagging and dry.
    It takes a while to get the hange of what is just right
  3. Belowdeckfab

    Belowdeckfab Supporting Vendor

    Messages:
    146
    Location:
    Warrenton, VA
    Raise your air pressure a little. That'll usually help with orange peel.
  4. swamprunner

    swamprunner

    Messages:
    993
    Location:
    In The Brine
    I was within the temp range specified and I tried turning the pressure up 8-10 psi over the recommendation. No luck. There is definitely a fine line when it comes to sagging. If I spray enough on to get it to lay down it runs. I'd just keep spraying on test panels but the stuff aint cheap.
  5. Fantom

    Fantom SILVER Star

    Messages:
    4,379
    Location:
    Port Coquitlam
    Almost always there will be a little orange peel finish on any paint, try sanding with a very fine grid paper, the paint before clear and then the clear.
  6. bandy rooster

    bandy rooster

    Messages:
    1,925
    Location:
    Sunny South
    i've used an "orange peel" additive from NAPA its used for orange peel and fish eyeing in paint...
  7. brownbear

    brownbear Mod in Hibernation Moderator

    Messages:
    6,613
    Location:
    True North Strong and Free
    I think a little more thinner. Then live with the peel. But Wetsanding takes all that away to some degree after.
  8. swamprunner

    swamprunner

    Messages:
    993
    Location:
    In The Brine
    instruction sheet only said add hardner and said nuthin about adding thinner. Any recommendations on what kind of thinner to use. I thought about trying the reducer I was using with the base coat. oh yeah its sherwin williams 4th demnsion paint if that matters
  9. miker

    miker SILVER Star

    I would try increasing the pressure even more.

    Also, where are you measuring the pressure? If you are measuring the pressure at the compresser, remember you you are loosing some psi along the length of hose to the gun. The longer and smaller the hose diameter the more pressure drop you will get. You can easily loose 10psi in the hose between the compresser and the gun so you might be at recommended psi now when you think you are 8-10 psi over.
  10. brownbear

    brownbear Mod in Hibernation Moderator

    Messages:
    6,613
    Location:
    True North Strong and Free
    actually without guessing anymore. Best bet is to call the place where you bought it and ask if they make a thinner or what reducer is recommended.

    I have not sprayed clear coat, but have sprayed more single component type paints that take hardener.

    I think you have to pick the reducer to the temperature.

    Anyhow see if there is a tech phone line just for this brand of paint.
  11. miker

    miker SILVER Star

    Something else I've noticed when I've sprayed clear with my gun, HVLP Binks M1-G with 1.4 tip. The clear tends to go on with some orange peel. It flows out to a much smoother finish over the next 20 to 30 minutes. If I try to get a smooth as glass look during the spraying, I will almost always get sags or runs. Its a fine line between too much and not enough and takes a little practice to get the right thickness for each coat. Basically, I try to get a wet look with a smooth or soft orange peel look. This tends to flow nicely to a much smoother finsh over a short time period without sags. The base coats go on like glass right out of the gun because they are so thin. I'm no expert and have only shot the one type of clear which is Omni by PPG.

    As I mentioned before, turning up the pressure above the recommeded amount helped me to get a better overall finish. I probably created more overspray doing this, but not near as much as a high pressure gun.

  12. swamprunner

    swamprunner

    Messages:
    993
    Location:
    In The Brine
    I'm gonna try turning the pressure up and adding a little reducer to the clear. I'll do some test panels first and then if it turns out better I'll go ahead and shoot the bed.
  13. Its a fine line, more reducer, higher pressure all equal a thinner product.


    Ever heard the term, painting a car is a controled run, basically thats what it comes down to.

    Putting on just enough product, with the right hardener for humidity and temp.

    Good luck
  14. jm599

    jm599

    Messages:
    320
    Location:
    nw montana
    agree with the all of the above, also don't let gun get to far from surface.
    what brand clear coat are you using.? I use PPG.

    using a higher temp reducer, such as 885 instead of 870 even at 70 degrees sometimes helps, it dries slower and seems to help it lay flat. use of wall lights helps to see the reflection and see the "wet edge" . one of my early errors was putting down a dryish granular first coat which promoted orange peel. I was over worried about runs. all coats need to be "wet" .

    runs in clear coat are not a big problem once you learn how to sand them out

    I learned more in 20 minutes watching a pro spray then in weeks of reading, watching tv shows and trial and error.

    experiment on a trial panel first, don't be in a hurry.
  15. vkfzj80

    vkfzj80

    Messages:
    213
    Location:
    olympia, wa
    you didn't say what kind of clear it is but most 2 part(clear and hardner) clears can be reduced with urathane reducers up to 10% by volume, most clears have a tendency to flow out if you have enough material, every clear sprays differently and the only way to get good results is to find what works for you and figure out how to get to flow out(depends on temp, mixing, reducers, gun settings, air presure etc..).

    the other thing you need to play with is the distance between the gun and the panel you're spraying, I use a couple of guns and they both like slightly different settings and spraying techniques, also, there should be an adjustment that you can make for how much clear flows while you're pulling the trigger and the spray pattern, you're looking for a nice even pattern as wide as you can get it without "dry" edges, you should be able to get at least 8-10 inches of coverage in a single pass if you have things dialed in properly,

    on my geo spray gun, I run about 28-32psi at the gun inlet with air regulator/presure gage, sata likes a bit more presure but it is also a "faster" gun and I like to use it for larger/complete paint jobs
  16. swamprunner

    swamprunner

    Messages:
    993
    Location:
    In The Brine
    Thanks for all the help guys
    I'm using sherwin williams 4th dimension paint. From everything I've read I think I need to put the coat on wetter. And also dial in the gun a bit more. I'm definitely not getting 8-10 inches of coverage in a single pass. The coverage is about have that.
  17. miker

    miker SILVER Star

    FWIW, just as another point of reference, when I'm shooting large panels with my Binks, I have the fluid and air almost wide open to get a pattern of 8 - 10". It took me awhile to realize I needed to really open up the gun for large panels.
  18. toddslater

    toddslater SILVER Star

    Messages:
    1,494
    If you are not getting the spray pattern of 8-10+ with your gun, then you need to adjust your gun. If your gun won't adjust to give that fan/pattern...then I think you may need to toss it in the hopper...or just use it hence forth as a primer gun.
  19. bigbrowndog

    bigbrowndog

    Messages:
    1,629
    Location:
    N.Q. australia
    The reference sheet for his gun will tell him the size and shape of his gun and the air pressure required at the nozzle. They do not all have an 8 to 10 inch spray pattern. The OP can be caused by many things, gun settings, spraying technique, weather and not reducing it correctly to name a couple. That gun could even have a defect in the spray pattern or not be adjusted correctly for all we know. I have not used that gun so I can't comment if it is any good for clear even though it may be good for undercoat and base coat , though usually a 1.7mm/1.8mm nozzle for most hibuild 2k undercoats not a 1.4mm nozzle.
    I think at this stage it is better wet sanded and then buffed.:beer: :beer:

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