Busted Rear Axle - Chromoly now? (1 Viewer)

[bobbynelson0730]

We are in the middle of the tummy tuck at the moment, still have a hole in the floor right now.

Yeah I haven't asked him a final number cause I don't want to know lol

What did you have to do to tuck the lefty? Modify floor, body lift?

Haha maybe I'll shoot him a PM given the circumstances.
I didn't have to do anything since I went with the Inchworm/Marlin case. Waaaay smaller than the Atlas 4 so it was just a matter of moving some exhaust pipes and chopping the crossmember. What you guys are doing will be way more bad ass

 

[Mtbcoach]

With all due respect, you really need to tear into this thing before jumping too far ahead of the cart.

My money is on the R&P gears, as Lee pointed out above, you are running a combo begging to tear the teeth off of them. I can only recall 2 rear axles being destroyed during my tenure of experience with FJC's and their owners, many, many R&P gear sets...

 

[bobbynelson0730]

With all due respect, you really need to tear into this thing before jumping too far ahead of the cart.

My money is on the R&P gears, as Lee pointed out above, you are running a combo begging to tear the teeth off of them. I can only recall 2 rear axles being destroyed during my tenure of experience with FJC's and their owners, many, many R&P gear sets...

No disrespect taken, fully understand your point and trust me if I worked where I keep the rig I would have had that done last night. Luckily short week so instead of turkey day football, I'll be pulling it apart. Combo isn't ideal, but as it goes when I broke the T-case it was better to upgrade then than to invest in another OEM. If it is the R&P then maybe I will do the same again and upgrade the whole unit. Like the case, it was in the works but not in that time frame...

Here is what I can't get a real answer on though. If it was the ring chipping a tooth then both wheels would be affected, and there would be a very audible sound every rotation and "skip" in power. Only the passenger side on mine is not moving under power and when I have both tires off the ground, with the rear locked or unlocked in 2wd/4wd/parked/Drive - the wheel can be free spun by hand. No crazy noises, grinding sounds. How can that happen, and still have the other wheel acting normally if it was the R&P?

Seems like not many people actually run those chromoly shafts anyways. Haven't found a single review of them installed in the FJC with the 8" or my 8.2"

 

[bobbynelson0730]

Pulling the third now to see if anything else is broken and to remove the other piece but guess you get a trail diagnoses right every once in a while

 

[LouisianaFJ]

Wow, hopefully no damage to the carrier.

When it comes to removing the backing plate to replace the axle, just take it to a dealer and have them press it out for like $30. Save you a lot of time and aggravation.

 

[Mtbcoach]

Good call, I lost the bet. All your symptoms made sense, just haven't seen that in a long time...

 

[Delancy]

Still think OEs would serve better than chromoly.....that, and implementing more judicious use of the skinny pedal, too.

Betting that wheel was spinning when that snapped.....

 

[bobbynelson0730]

Wow, hopefully no damage to the carrier.

When it comes to removing the backing plate to replace the axle, just take it to a dealer and have them press it out for like $30. Save you a lot of time and aggravation.

One of the local guys I wheel with bent a shaft and we built a press and jig for the task. Just going to head over there and swap them out since we both thought we built it for one job and that was a waste lol

Good call, I lost the bet. All your symptoms made sense, just haven't seen that in a long time...

Haha what do I win? Yeah I'm surprised as well but happy since it could have been a lot worse

Still think OEs would serve better than chromoly.....that, and implementing more judicious use of the skinny pedal, too.

Betting that wheel was spinning when that snapped.....

Maybe so but even with my toyota employee pricing from a friend the OEM are around 380 a piece. Figure when I sell the assembly chromoly will catch some extra interest and the tire was moving but I just had it in LO LO and let the lefty do the work. It was a pretty surprising sound to hear lol

Pulled the third member out since a magnet proved futile, atleast the kragen magnet I had laying around. I wanted to check the carrier out too make sure it was ok. Just a small tap from the other side and the broken spline end came out. You can see it twisted before breaking. I slid the opposite side in to check for any play and all was well with the side gears. The ring looks good, don't have the tools or know how to measure back lash but visually I was ok with everything. Tore the gasket so one is showing up soon for the third. After pulling everything I cleaned out the housing and no more metal was in there, just very fine pieces on the magnet. Temp bolted the third on and taped baggies over the tubes and just waiting for parts and to get home from work next weekend.
Hoping it all goes in smooth as it came out. Probably just going to get it running again and take it easy while the piggy bank fills up for a swap to a rock jock or custom housing.

My new paper weight for work

 

[bobbynelson0730]

Just called JT Differentials to order my chromoly axles. Glad I waited till today to speak with a real person instead of just ordering the parts from the website. Website says the same part number for the 8" and the 8.2" but I wasn't sold on them being identical based on what the site said. When I called the rep was a little unsure also, but was really helpful and he's double checking with their toyota guru to make sure I get the right parts before they send them out. Replacing both shafts while they're both out.

 

[bobbynelson0730]

part #'s were confirmed, axles are on their way from WA, hopefully install this weekend

 

[Mtbcoach]

Just called JT Differentials to order my chromoly axles. Glad I waited till today to speak with a real person instead of just ordering the parts from the website. Website says the same part number for the 8" and the 8.2" but I wasn't sold on them being identical based on what the site said. When I called the rep was a little unsure also, but was really helpful and he's double checking with their toyota guru to make sure I get the right parts before they send them out. Replacing both shafts while they're both out.

part #'s were confirmed, axles are on their way from WA, hopefully install this weekend

Well done, so many don't like to call vendors, just using web ordering. I guess I'm old school and still like to call, particularly on such important items. Good catch...

Same on replacing both, smart man...

 

[RyanMillen]

part #'s were confirmed, axles are on their way from WA, hopefully install this weekend

I'm so proud of you Bobby, you're well on your way to breaking as many parts as I have.

 

[bobbynelson0730]

Well done, so many don't like to call vendors, just using web ordering. I guess I'm old school and still like to call, particularly on such important items. Good catch...

Same on replacing both, smart man...

Definitely worth the call even if the listing was correct. After my experiences with the Lefty, I want that rig off the stands and not stranded due to wrong parts.... Again

I'm so proud of you Bobby, you're well on your way to breaking as many parts as I have.

I dunno if I should take this as a compliment or not hey you feel like pressing those hubs on thus weekend at your shiny shop?

 

[bobbynelson0730]

New rear wheel bearings showing up tomorrow too. Slippery slope...

 

[bobbynelson0730]

Special package showed up. Headed to the machine shop to get the new bearings pressed on, being lazy

 

[bobbynelson0730]

2 machine shops, 2 weeks and 20+ tons of pressure later and the new toyota bearings and retainers are pressed onto the Nitro chromoly axles. Finally looking like the rig will be off the stands this weekend

Looking forward to getting back home to slap them in, I will snap better pics of the axles including the splines prior to reassembly

 

[LouisianaFJ]

All downhill from there!
Hardest part was just getting ebrake assembly back together.

 

[bobbynelson0730]

Wow, what a weekend trying to get the rig back together.
Came home Friday stoked to have my axle assembly complete with the new bearings and retainers pressed on. That was the first time I got to physically see the difference between the OEM and Nitro Chromoly shafts. While the diameter and splines remain basically the same, there are some subtle differences and they have yet to be determined as good or bad changes...
The new shafts have a thicker flange than the OEM's by a good 3/16" and the "neck" before the splines where I snapped the OEM does not reduce down as much and has a larger span that gradually tapers down to the splines. Hopefully both contribute to a stonger set up at the weaker points in the shaft.
Began my saturday by pulling the third out again and cleaning up the flanges, removing all of the torn bits of paper gasket. The original one tore right away when I first pulled it 2 weeks ago. Some residual oil was still in the housing while it sat, and it did leak since the gasket was torn so a tip; If you ever pull the third out and tear the gasket - replace it, it will leak. At the recommendation of my tech friend, I used the red Toyota sealant normally for the Tcase/Bellhousing in place of a paper gasket.
After getting the third back in place with the rear locker wired back up, breather hooked up, driveline and nuts torqued down I moved to the shafts. Installing them is as easy as removing - slide them in till they meet the side gears, 4 bolts and you're good to go. Filled up the diff with fresh oil, done there.
Then the fun happened... You have to completely disconnect the rear calipers to remove the shaft assembly, so while I already had to bleed the brakes I installed my long over due All Pro stainless brake lines. They are about 1.5-2" longer than stock and had slack at full droop. That was easy.
Move on to the E-brake. Installed everything per the FSM diagrams, slipped on the rotor and caliper and took it for a spin. Every rotation I could hear a loud pop or click noise coming from the rear end. First thought...F**K my ring/pinion is shot. In a moment of clarity I gently applied the ebrake while moving and the noise went away. So to test my idea, went back to the stands and removed the ebrake's from the rig. Clicking noise gone, rides like normal (can't say a dream cause it's still a pig).
I want to say a good 15hrs of my weekend was spent installing and uninstalling the ebrakes trying to get the clicking to go away. Had a local member come over with some pizza and beer to do some brainstorming. Got as far as "let's go buy an impact":thinkerg: The only way I could get the clicking to go away was to adjust the springs to the lowest setting possible, but then there was no braking force. So finally last night around 9pm I gave in and brought it to its second home over at Service Pros (same shop that did my Lefty and Tummy Tuck, Jeff and his guys are AMAZING) since my time was up and had a long commute for another week away for work. Have the next few weekends booked with other than wrenching activites so hopefully they will get it squared away.
So as I lay awake last night and the drive this morning thinking about these axles, a couple of gripes as you'll have it.
First off, the inner lip is considerably shorter than the OEM. It is tall enough for the rotor to seat onto, but there is no space for the wheel or in my case the spacer to seat on unlike the stock ones that do. My concern with that is the wheel/spacers are designed as hubcentric and in my head that means the hub is acually part of the strength of the wheel mount, not just relying on the studs. Not good in my mind, but I guess I will deal with it.
Second, the flange is thicker than stock like I said before. One of the ideas we came up with for the rubbing could be that the rotor now is seated slightly further away from the backing plate. That means the brake caliper and e brake drum are no longer perfectly centered on the rotor. How much of that is really tangible, I do not know. But anything could happen right?
Third and most annoying, the lack of extra plugs for brake adjustment. If you look at the stock flanges and the FSM, there are 2 extra holes not used by the studs. When the brake rotor is lined up, the holes covered by a plug give access to the ebrake adjuster with the rotor on. Without the hole on the new flange, you have to remove the entire assembly to access the dial. Bascially it made everything I had to do this weeekend x100 more tedious, and I can't see how you could ever get it properly adjusted. Correct me if I am wrong but you should have it adjusted to where there is tension then back off a few clicks. Now I have to guesstimate, and in the time I tried was unsuccessful.
Fourth, and I get it that there are usually little legal footnotes stating "pictured may not be the actual profuct" but when you go onto the Nitro or JT site, the axle pictured is black (dont't care there, what did they do? powder coat it for a picture?) and there are more than 6 stud holes, presumably for the brake adjusters. Either way, these are not OEM replacement shafts in that they are different in more than one way from stock.

I know the guys at Service Pros will get it done, no problem with me dropping it off there. However so far the slight oversights in design have me a little disappointed. Can't comment on how strong they are since I can barely get out of the driveway without sounding like a combination of ratting tank treads and a screeching chalkboad. It's been quite the task to get these together, with the bearing ratainers taking exceptionally greater force to install than stock. The added costs of replacing all of the bearings, reatiners and now maybe brakes, it's more expensive than the 250 range they retail for. Hoping things look better on the trail, they usually do. But for now, here's what I see considering there is a definite lack of real feedback on these shafts to date.
And just to be comepletely clear, I do not look badly on JT Diff or Nitro as companies. Opie over at JT diff was EXTREMELY helpful over the phone making sure the parts were correct and getting my order shipped out same day. Customer service is top notch in my mind. I have not contacted them about the part differences, because really how it is - I went the aftermarket route. Not the first time for me. There will always be little things that can make life difficult at the time, but the thought is that the end product will be worth it compared to stock. And I have new bushing already installed, they're in the axle, those parts seem to work. So not planning on causing more headaches for everyone taking them out. I'm fine with it. Same kind of annoying hiccups with other parts on my rig, I dealt with it, fixed it and couldn't be happier. That's the nature of the game when dealing with stuff a little more invloved than a bumper or sliders you typically see on these boards. All this post is meant to be is for real feedback on a part that seems to have none so others can be aware. So thank you Opie, much appreciated for the quality customer service.
More to come including the culprit hopefully in a few weeks. Until then it's dirt bike and snow board season, wheeling can wait.:smoker:

 

[BMThiker]

Those parking brakes are the debil. I've done them a time or two and always come away with bloody knuckles.

 

[LouisianaFJ]

yeah the additional two holes on the stock axles are a big help for reinstalling the ebrake

the trick we found was to put the retainerclip/spring onto the little rod, compress it all together, then put it into the assembly. Worked much better, but that was probably still a freaking 30minutes-hour wasted fighting with that.

glad your all back together now!