2H Glow Plug Wilson Switch - Wiring Melting! (1 Viewer)

[bj40green]

I think I will just wire a lamp between the 2 wires and be done with it.

Daryl

If you do that the bulb will lit up at max brightness and your plugs won't glow. In this case the light bulb is the current limiter for the glow plugs. Right now you're cooking your 8.5 Volt plugs with 12V, which can be fine as long as you don't glow them to long. Better to buy the 12V 4 cyl. controller 28550-46021 (open model) or the 28550-57010 (closed model).
Or if you want no controller, change your plugs to 10.5 Volt.
You don't want an exploded glow plug tip in your cylinder!

Saludos

Rudi

If you decide for the light bulb and you want your plugs glow correctly, here is the math: 12V battery minus 8.5 Volt glow plugs is 3.5 Volt for the light bulb.
Your 4 plugs are pulling 40 Amps. So 3.5Volt times 40 Amps makes a 140 Watt light bulb!

 

[lostmarbles]

In addition to what Rudi just said.... the reason your 24V glow controller couldn't handle the 12 volt application was because each 8.5V plug (12V application) draws approx twice as much current compared to each 20.5V plugs (24V application).

My FSM says 7.7-10.3 amperes (at 8.5V) versus 4.1 - 5.5 amperes (at 20.5V) for each plug.

And it is current flow that makes the controller glow.

While it is indeed true that the hot resistance of the 24V controller itself would be twice as high as the 12V one (and therefore would inhibit current flow more).... controller-resistance isn't the main "current limiting factor" in the circuit.

The combined resistances of the parallel-connected glow plugs are the real current-limiting-factor. And this is vastly lower for 8.5V parallel-connected plugs compared to 20.5V parallel-connected plugs. So much so, that halving the supply voltage from 24V down to 12V still provides current so high that it'll blow the 24V controller.

Well that's the way I see it anyway.



PS. 8.5V plugs aren't used in superglow so there is an error in your post fjbj40

 

[Inventure]

I was just going through some of the images on my laptop and came across this one I took last night.

Excuse the shocking picture quality but you can see that I have used Nylok Lock nuts on the coil. Another stupid thing I did without thinking. The blue nylon has melted and has started to run out of the nut.

I think what I will do over the weekend is remove the glow controller altogether and run the wires directly to the standard Superglow resister as I have.

I can use the ignition switched power line (line that switches the glow relay on and off) to run a light to warn that the glow plugs are on and just work off a time delay for glowing - this is really no big deal to do anyway provided leaving the plugs on too long wont burn them out.

Following that I can replace the glow plugs with the 10.5v plugs and remove all resistance altogether for an even more reliable simple system.

On further inspection of the wires, the line running to the glow plugs (Black with Red trace) is the wire that is the most heat effected. Its hard to see but the yellow terminal cover is fairly melted. You can also see that the nylock nut holding that terminal on is the more melted nut. So that is the feed into the glow plugs that has melted.

I still havent had time to remove a plug and check what voltage they are, but I am fairly certain they would be standard.

 

[Inventure]

Just thought I would post an image on what I am working on.

This was the truck as I got it - most of the hard work done. I still have a lot of fiddly stuff to get done to finish this as it has a 2H custom fitted and a lot of stuff needs to be custom fit (eg. air box, handbrake cable, fuel lines, etc etc, not to mention the wiring I have had to do although the glow system is the only thing left now to sort out 100%)

 

[fjbj40]

Tom, right you are, they are 6 volt. They are just in there now to keep the dirt out I was also getting excited as the end is drawing near for the resto/mod on my 40 (6 years later) and I was excited to start it

I plan on installing the 10.5 volt plugs and was going to go with a light, but Rudi brought up a good point. If I need a light I will just pull power from my switch when it is energized to light up the lamp as per the wilson switch way.

I would love to go with the glow controller but the 12 volt model is not available in Canada, only the 24 volt model.

Rudi, what is the differance between the close and open controller? Do you have access to these controllers in Costa Rica?

Cheers and thanks,
Daryl

In addition to what Rudi just said.... the reason your 24V glow controller couldn't handle the 12 volt application was because each 8.5V plug (12V application) draws approx twice as much current compared to each 20.5V plugs (24V application).

My FSM says 7.7-10.3 amperes (at 8.5V) versus 4.1 - 5.5 amperes (at 20.5V) for each plug.

And it is current flow that makes the controller glow.

While it is indeed true that the hot resistance of the 24V controller itself would be twice as high as the 12V one (and therefore would inhibit current flow more).... controller-resistance isn't the main "current limiting factor" in the circuit.

The combined resistances of the parallel-connected glow plugs are the real current-limiting-factor. And this is vastly lower for 8.5V parallel-connected plugs compared to 20.5V parallel-connected plugs. So much so, that halving the supply voltage from 24V down to 12V still provides current so high that it'll blow the 24V controller.

Well that's the way I see it anyway.



PS. 8.5V plugs aren't used in superglow so there is an error in your post fjbj40

 

[bj40green]

Tom, right you are, they are 6 volt. They are just in there now to keep the dirt out I was also getting excited as the end is drawing near for the resto/mod on my 40 (6 years later) and I was excited to start it

I plan on installing the 10.5 volt plugs and was going to go with a light, but Rudi brought up a good point. If I need a light I will just pull power from my switch when it is energized to light up the lamp as per the wilson switch way.

I would love to go with the glow controller but the 12 volt model is not available in Canada, only the 24 volt model.

Rudi, what is the differance between the close and open controller? Do you have access to these controllers in Costa Rica?

Cheers and thanks,
Daryl

The open one was used until 1980 after that it was the closed version. Our theorie is that when you glow too long, the heat from the controller can cause melting of the headlight switch wiring which is right above the controller.
Here are 2 pics from the EPC.


If you want a visible control of your glow circuit without a controller below you see a pic of how I solved a similar but different problem. I have energy saving glowplugs who are pulling / drawing not 10 but only 8 Amps a piece. So the total is not 40 but 32 Amps which is not enough to get my controller glowing, but it (the system) works perfectly fine. To know what's happening I installed a light bulb into the empty socket on the right side of my brake warning light. See pic.


Not stock or OEM but it works fine and I'm a happy camper.

I bought my OEM controller 28550-46021 last jan. and paid US$46 for it.

Rudi

Have a look about my struggle with fixing my glow circuit in my thread: https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...where-hooks-glow-controller-into-harness.html there are also good close up pictures from the controller and his position to the light switch above it.

 

[Inventure]

If I wanted to go completely to the original superglow, there needs to be 2 main wire feeds going to the glow plugs. The 12v initial burst and the 6v secondary supply. Does the initial 12v go straight to the busbar? The reason I ask this is because if you look at the image I posted before where I show my glow power connection, the seems to be 2 'rails' here to connect up to. What is the second rail for?

 

[bj40green]

If I wanted to go completely to the original superglow, there needs to be 2 main wire feeds going to the glow plugs. The 12v initial burst and the 6v secondary supply. Does the initial 12v go straight to the busbar? The reason I ask this is because if you look at the image I posted before where I show my glow power connection, the seems to be 2 'rails' here to connect up to. What is the second rail for?

Hi Inventure, have a look at this thread https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...gs-should-i-running-b-2b-3b-h-2h-diesels.html and go to posting 38 and up. Here you'll find diagrams for glow systems including "Super Glow" for a 2H engine and lots of info about the how and why's of glow systems.

Hope this helps,

Good luck

Rudi

 

[mr_manny]

have you thought about a starter solenoid?

I did something similar to this:
vincewaldon.com - HOW-TO: Pimp your glowplug wiring

a momentary switch w/indicator light (to the solenoid) on a switched Positive source..

push the button, and count to 10...works like a charm

very inexpensive if you source the parts yourself.

 

[bj40green]

Hi Manny,

That's a very good "Wilson switch" write up. I like the short route of the wiring. I still don't understand why the glow relay in our BJ's is inside the cab on the pass side while the battery and the glow plugs are on the drivers side. If you move the relay to the firewall under the hood you can take out 6 to 8 feet of wiring.
Thanks for posting.

Rudi

 

[Inventure]

Hi manny

I am actually using a starter solenoid at the moment, switched via a dash mounted switch. That was the easy part. The thing I need to decide is do I get new 8.5v plugs and use the glow controller, do I get 10.5v plugs and connect straight to the busbar without the glow controller, or do I keep the 6v plugs and connect to the standard resister (as per previously posted image)?

Been out working on it today but doing some other diddly stuff like fitting radiator overflow bottle and washer bottle etc...

 

[mr_manny]

how about a quick list, regarding the Benefits of Glow-plug controllers:

Benefits (may not be complete):
-----------------------------------
provide voltage on a timed circuit to your glow-plugs.
the automatic visual aid (indicator light), light goes out...turn the key.
prevent extended voltage to your glow-plugs, so you are less likely to burn them out.
Some controllers continue to provide voltage after the light goes out...aiding to the cold start-up of your motor.


Do to the winter conditions in California , I prefer to Eliminate the controller.
push the button, count to 10 and turn the key.
If motor's not cold, don't even push the button.


The simplicity of the system is what sold me.
All components are inexpensive and always in stock locally.

 

[project hj45]

hey mate ive got a 1978 hj45 H engine did a 2H conversion but have no idea were to start with the wiring
any advice or pictures would be greatly appreciated thanx

 

[Inventure]

Hi Project HJ45

The main wiring I needed to do was 1 - the glow plugs and 2 - the EDIC.

If yours had the original H motor in it then it should already have all the wiring there, it will just need to be adapted to the 2H, whereas mine was actually an FJ45 wiring loom and I build the wiring from scratch for these 2 items.

I have just ordered some 8.5V plugs, Bosch items GPT208 - I am yet to fit these but will be doing that this weekend so I'll let you know how that goes. You will need to use these (from what I have been told - I am yet to do this) with the glow controller (coil indicator on the dash) as the 2H will likely come standard with 6v plugs. What year model motor is it? In one of my first posts I posted an image of the wiring diagram for the glow plugs - that should work fine for yours - but would need to know what wiring you have in place already?

As far as the EDIC goes, there was 4 wires running to the EDIC from the Fuel Control Relay. The FCR is the unit that controls the EDIC - it tells it to move into Run, Off or Start position. I dont know about the H motor, but I assume it used the same sort of set up, so it should just be a matter of matching the wires up from your loom to the 2H EDIC. Anyone else got experience with matching the H to the 2H wiring for this...?

Aside from that, and using my wiring diagram for the glow plugs above, you should be ok...? Anything else you need to know?

 

[Inventure]

Finally got around to pulling this glow wiring out. You can see the feed wire (black/red) is melted for about 1" and the nylocs have melted too.

I've put in 8.5v plugs and am in the process of running the wiring. I'm trying to keep it as short as possible, and I also swapped the generic solenoid I had with a genuine glow relay from the super glow system (the cylindrical relay which is the main glow relay).

Fingers crossed this works!

 

[Inventure]

Right. Changed everything over. 8.5v plugs Bosch gpt208s. Connected directly to the busbar, bypassing all superglow resister and current sensor etc. Using heavy gauge wire (same as before though). Using factory glow relay (cylindrical main relay).

Turn the momentary switch on. Hold for about 10 seconds and glow controller glows orange. Keep holding for up to 20 seconds and glow plug busbar feed wire starts to heat right up. The plug insulator (yellow bit can see in my last post) gets melted slightly and the wire insulation starts to soften (can twist on the copper).

My battery is still low so maybe not supplying the full 12v is causing the problem.

Hmmm... Guess I'll wait till I get the new battery installed and see if that helps?

 

[lostmarbles]

Right. Changed everything over. 8.5v plugs Bosch gpt208s. Connected directly to the busbar, bypassing all superglow resister and current sensor etc. Using heavy gauge wire (same as before though). Using factory glow relay (cylindrical main relay).

Turn the momentary switch on. Hold for about 10 seconds and glow controller glows orange. Keep holding for up to 20 seconds and glow plug busbar feed wire starts to heat right up. The plug insulator (yellow bit can see in my last post) gets melted slightly and the wire insulation starts to soften (can twist on the copper).

My battery is still low so maybe not supplying the full 12v is causing the problem.

Hmmm... Guess I'll wait till I get the new battery installed and see if that helps?

A new battery will make the heat build-up problem worse still!

I wonder why it's happening at all though?

Your glow controller seems to be the right one judging from Rudi's chart in post #52 in this thread:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...-should-i-running-b-2b-3b-h-2h-diesels-3.html

So that shouldn't be the problem (unless someone has shortened the coil to make it work on a 4 cylinder engine prior to it being fitted there for your 6 cylinder engine).

Edit 25/7/11 .... I knew I should have thought more about what I was saying here before typing it! The reason for shortening the coil - if in fact anyone did do so - shouldn't have been to make it work on a 4 cylinder engine because fewer plugs require a controller with HIGHER resistance (more coils).

I wonder whether one of your controller terminals is perhaps "earthing-out to the bodywork" via the controller-casing. I see a lot of heat around there and that would certainly explain what's happening.... (Those fibre washers may not be keeping your terminal bolts properly isolated from the body of the controller?)

Here's a photo of mine showing the factory "red fibre insulation" with a photo of yours again below it:

 

[bj40green]

........So that shouldn't be the problem (unless someone has shortened the coil to make it work on a 4 cylinder engine prior to it being fitted there for your 6 cylinder engine).

I'm thinking in the same direction as Tom. When I look at your controller I see that the left tower (seen from behind) has only two nuts. I like to see a picture of the controller from the back so I can see the coil. Something in the back of my head tells me the controller is modified. The part# is OK but that doesn't say that the controller is original.

Another thing is, what Voltage do you have at the controller down side? Should be something between 7 and 8Volt with your low battery. If the battery is full and the system is 100% the reading shoulld be 8.5V. I'm curiuos about the reading.

Good luck and happy hours,

Rudi

 

[Inventure]

Ok - few checks done.

- 12v across battery terminals.
- 7.8 and climbing volts at the busbar with the glow plug switch held on
- 8ish volts at the feed side of the glow controller
- 11ish and climbing volts at the power in side of the glow controller
- glow controller is not earthily out (ie. All insulations are working as they should)

All that seems to be right.

Glow controller - I have attached an image. The coil has only 3 winds. When I installed this, I had to replace the bolts as they had rusted out. I also had to replace some nuts and washers but all the nuts are there. My changes seen to me that they should work...?

Wire - measure across the full diameter the wire and insulation is 6mm. Measure the diameter if the copper only and it is 3mm. Is this right?

I can't think of anything else. It just seems that the heat if the coli is Conducting straight down the feed wire - but only the feed wire which seems to imply that it is a current draw issue. What amperage should be drawn? I can measure this and check - but still the setup seems to be right....

 

[Inventure]

Please excuse my spelling errors - I am posting all this from an iPhone as I don't have the net at home - damn iPhone keypad is too small!