Estimating Loss of Value (1 Viewer)

[Yossarian]

Earlier this month I took the LC to the local dealer for the 45k service. I wanted them to check and document a few other items, so I brought it to them instead of doing it myself. When I finished up with the service advisor I walked out to my idling vehicle that somehow now sounded like a diesel. It took a second for me to realize that maybe they didn't put oil back in the engine after service. The dealer removed and disassembled the original motor, and installed a new short block. I just got my truck back yesterday afternoon, 23 days after bringing it in for service.

The question now, for the dealers insurance company is loss of value. The insurance company originally said that they would reimburse me for loss of value. But after it was determined that an almost new motor would be installed, they changed their position. I have been in discussions with them that it is really still an unknown, new engine or not. They have been understanding and are trying to research it on their end, and I told them I would check here also. In the end it will be the market that determines if there is indeed loss of value, and who better to ask than Land Cruiser enthusiasts.

Thoughts?

 

[LX prospect]

Whether the motor is new or old is immaterial -- the extra 23 days you had to wait is enough inconvenience cost for them to give you a new motor and call it a day. It was their fault entirely. A motor with 45k on it is basically 10-20% used, depending on oil used, etc.

You'd hate to mention further legal action / posting such experiences on Yelp, etc., but they're just being a typical dealer with you, and that really doesn't help them, in the long run.

How do they define loss of value?

 

[Yossarian]

Just to clarify, the dealer has done their part. The service manager was nothing but apologetic and accommodating through the entire process. The dealer repaired the vehicle and we negotiated future service in addition to the extended Toyota warranty I already have.

The dealers insurance company is whom I'm dealing with now. We have already negotiated loss of use, the unknown is loss of "value". Since we now have a service record of the engine swap, it'll be on carfax etc. How would a potential future buyer view this?

 

[brussum]

I'm not sure how you would assess loss of value in your particular situation, but I agree with your concern. If I were a potential buyer, I would see the engine swap on the Carfax report as a red flag and it would likely persuade me to look elsewhere. You have a good explanation, but you may never have the opportunity to give it to a potential buyer unless the sales price is sufficiently low. My negotiation starting point would probably be 25% of current value based solely on my gut feeling.

 

[MScruiser]

If I were you, I would be demanding a new 200 series.

They screwed the pooch on your truck. The loss of value is indeterminable. Can you imagine how much loss you would take when trying to sell it? A new engine?! Hell no; I wouldn't touch a truck like that with a 10 foot pole.

In my opinion, they should buy the truck back from you at book value plus a big chunk of change for the PITA you have had to go through. I'd start somewhere around 20%-30%. Tell them if they think the truck would be so easy to sell, then they can sell it themselves.

Maybe I am being too dramatic, but that's just me. If you don't get what you want, I would be seeking a lawyer asap. It doesn't matter how nice or apologetic the dealer is; of course he is being nice. The nicer he is the less !@# pounding you are going to be giving him.

 

[Yossarian]

Thanks for the replies, brussum that's a good start.

MScruiser, that is kind of where we started, mega p----d off. We did consult with an attorney, they are required to repair the vehicle is what we were told. We did explore buying it back, replacing with a "like" 200, and getting a new one. All options had a downside, even the one we took.

 

[Willy beamin]

Well then, enjoy the new engine for many years to come.

 

[InkMing]

Diminished value claim.

I can PM you some more details, but that is what you are looking for. Usually used when your vehicle has been in an accident, but might apply to this situation as well.

This is copied from an email I got years ago form an Audi club. But I have shared it time and time again and is a great resource.





Just what is a DV loss?

-----------------------



Once your car has been wrecked, even the best body shop cannot restore the car to its full before-accident value. Sure, the insurance company will cover the repair bills, but your car will be worth less -- maybe a LOT less, depending on the circumstances. That "diminished value" represents a loss to you, and you have every right to be reimbursed for it.



How do I file a claim?

----------------------



In a nutshell, the procedure is: fix car, get car appraised, get paid.



Before you do anything, let the initial trauma of the accident subside!

There's no urgent need to make the DV claim right away. Relax, set up the initial insurance claim for the repairs, and let the insurance companies squabble over who was at fault.



Once you have established the repair claim and finished grieving over your damaged car, you have two phone calls to make.



First, inform the insurance agent that you intend to file a DV claim. Not all agents are familiar with them, so keep asking until you find someone who is. You will eventually need to get your car appraised, so ask whether the insurance company has any restrictions on who does the appraisal. They will probably say that you may use any licensed appraiser.



Second, find an appraiser who has prior experience doing DV claims. Don't make the appointment yet; just confirm that the appraiser is licensed and has worked on DV claims before.



Once you make those initial phone calls, wait until AFTER the repairs have been finished. Drive the car for a few days. Convince yourself that the repairs are completely finished to your full satisfaction, and will not require any return trips for follow-up repairs. Then, and only then, get the appraisal done.



The result of the appraisal should be a certificate stating the amount of the loss. Send a copy of the certificate to the insurance company, and they should issue you a check with minimal fuss and bother. It is theoretically possible that the insurance company might challenge your claim, but in my experience a challenge is unlikely if you use a reputable appraiser.

 

[TJsTACOMA]

A 2009 with 45k. That is excellent mileage and very rare to find a 200 like that. Sorry to hear about what happened. Good luck with getting what you want.

 

[BTUMAN]

I agree that there is loss of value. Most folks will pull a VIN and see that it had major engine issues and will not touch it.

This is why I do not take my 200 to the dealer to get an oil change. I think if this happened to my 200 I would have been arrested at the dealer for the scene I would have caused! No, seriously- that level of incompetence - I would talk to another attorney.

 

[SWUtah]

I agree that there is loss of value. Most folks will pull a VIN and see that it had major engine issues and will not touch it.

This is why I do not take my 200 to the dealer to get an oil change. I think if this happened to my 200 I would have been arrested at the dealer for the scene I would have caused! No, seriously- that level of incompetence - I would talk to another attorney.

I had that happen in Atlanta at the Lexus dealer. I now always check the oil level after an oil change before leaving the dealership. I had my wife's ES300 in for the 90k service, so it was not heart breaking that they did this to mine. Most dealers have a dedicated crew that only does oil/filter changes. I now always confirm this fact. I never have services done only specific items done. I never have anything else done on a visit when I am doing a oil/filter change, this limits the possibility of a screw up. I know this sounds obsessive but I'm old and retired and I don't want to crawl around under my vehicles any more. I take the beasts to Lexus so if they do screw up they "can" fix it and they can't claim someone else did it. Everyone does realize that if he had 200k miles on his 2009 200 series this never would of happened, it only happens when your vehicle is in beautiful shape and is low mileage, for its model year. I.e. Worth more then book value.

 

[ppc]

The dealer removed and disassembled the original motor, and installed a new short block.

Short block only? To me that sounds like only one half of a motor. Does that include heads, cams and anything else normally bathed in oil?

From a Google search:

A short block engine and a long block engine are two different engine states. While they are both the same in external dimensions, they differ in the amount of parts they contain. Both short block and long block engines are potential components to the best car engines.

Short Block Engine
Short block engines are not complete but they do come with a cam pistons, connecting rods and a crank.. They do require the installation of additional internal parts which include but are not limited to: an oil pump, cylinder heads and gaskets. Some short blocks are made available with camshafts and timing parts.

Long Block Engine
This type of engine is almost complete and comes with the head which is bolted to the short block. The long block engine will need to have some additional external parts installed. These parts include but are not limited to: valve covers, manifolds for the exhaust and intake, a timing covers and an oil pan.

 

[cc1999]

I know pretty much anything negative on a car fax hurts one. When I was shopping for my LCs over the past year. I had noticed a few with some car-fax blems. One was a lemon buy back out of California, which apparently after some research it is really easy to pull off lemon buy backs in Cali, there laws are harsh for the mfgs. This cruiser I was looking at was priced about 4,000 under average market value (10%). The buy back was triggered by 3 repeated attempts to get the dealer to resolve the LC lean, that most of us know is normal. But apparently in Cali if you take a vehicle into the dealer 3 times for the same issue and it does not get resolved, the mfgs are required to buy it back. This vehicle was at a dealer in MO, where I was told once titled outside California, it would no longer have a lemon title. Either way I moved on to other vehicles, as I would if I had seen an engine replacement history. Typically what I saw when shopping was that if the car fax had blemishes, then the values were seeming to be effected negatively by about 10-15% depending on the severity of the reported issues.

 

[Tripledave]

Man that sucks. Reinforces my stand that dealer service departments are at best, of minimal use to me and at worst, a direct threat to any vehicle they are allowed to touch.

I know internet muscles are generally frowned upon but I'd have told that dealer to jam my $80k LC up their ass and by that I mean through my well compensated, attorney drafted, certified mail delivered letter stating such.

Your vehicle will never be the same. Finely handcrafted in Japan vs rebuilt by some "certified" Toyota mechanic does not equate.

Again, it sickens me to hear about your issue and I hope they make it right with you at the end of the day.

Rant over and good luck to you sir.


Sent from my extremely unreliable mobile device using IH8MUD Forum

 

[Tripledave]

I agree that there is loss of value. Most folks will pull a VIN and see that it had major engine issues and will not touch it.

This is why I do not take my 200 to the dealer to get an oil change. I think if this happened to my 200 I would have been arrested at the dealer for the scene I would have caused! No, seriously- that level of incompetence - I would talk to another attorney.

This ^^^ on a good day.


Sent from my extremely unreliable mobile device using IH8MUD Forum

 

[Archtaan]

Make sure the new motor has a killer warranty.

2nd - There is a limit to loss of value in many states. I believe it is $1500 but you should check your specific area. Needless to say, extended warrant + oil changes for life + $1500 would be my starting point.

That or trade it in on another LC200 at that dealership and demand premium allowance. Im talking full retail + DV.

Sorry to hear that. Sucks big time.

 

[arich]

I bought my 2007 BMW M5 in 2010 for $10,000 under KBB because it had an complete engine swap. It was an oil pump failure but no one wanted it but me and the dealer kept calling me. I took the chance and still have it.
We're talking about cars and trucks that are in the upper end of the market, any blemish hurts value.

 

[ton504]

They only replaced half the engine. They reused the heads according to your picture. If its been dealer maintained, I would demand a comparable replacement with the same service history. Or redo the engine, extend the power train warranty, and cut you a check for your inconvenience/loss of value.

I used to be a tech for a Lexus dealer and I can tell you that the "dedicated" oil changers are worthless. One week they are bagging groceries and the next week they are changing oil on a 80k suv. They are saving movey by paying those guys instead of paying me 30 an hour to service your vehicles. And now they should pay for that. They get what they pay for. End rant.

 

[SWUtah]

They only replaced half the engine. They reused the heads according to your picture. If its been dealer maintained, I would demand a comparable replacement with the same service history. Or redo the engine, extend the power train warranty, and cut you a check for your inconvenience/loss of value.

I used to be a tech for a Lexus dealer and I can tell you that the "dedicated" oil changers are worthless. One week they are bagging groceries and the next week they are changing oil on a 80k suv. They are saving movey by paying those guys instead of paying me 30 an hour to service your vehicles. And now they should pay for that. They get what they pay for. End rant.

The guy that forgot to put oil in my wife's ES300 was a Lexus Master tech. He was doing a 90k mile service on our car and also working on another car. The yard guy asked him if he was done with our car and he said yes. The yard guy shut the hood and drove off with no oil in my car and a wrench and oil cap sitting on my engine. At least if you have a dedicated oil guy that is all they do. At a dealership they want to do a good job to get ahead and it does not require a master tech to do a oil change. Matter of fact the only person who has ever screwed up a oil change on one of my vehicles was a master tech!! End of my rant.

 

[Yossarian]

Thanks for all the replies. I spent a fair bit of time on the phone yesterday with several people (thanks Christo), including a diminished value consultant. I had no idea there was such an industry (thanks InkMing), and he was very helpful. I compiled many of the replies here and sent them to the dealers insurance company. I received an email yesterday afternoon that they are confident we can reach an agreement, we shall see.

As much as I still love driving my 80, it's nice to have the 200 back.