Yes another differential / driveline sound (1 Viewer)

[Weber Sarge]

If there are shims back by the rear pinion bearing it's a solid spacer setup already , which is good . Some had crush type spacers and a lot of us do not like them since they can lose their preload over time . I got some shims from either Toyota or maybe Kurt when I rebuilt the bearings in mine - they were all toast . I'm not sure how or why you guys could turn the adjuster rings without loosening the carrier bolts first - they are designed to tightly clamp those threaded rings when torqued properly . I'd say someone has been inside it already from the looks of it .

Are those pitting or galling marks on the ring gear ? Hard to tell from the photo , they should be polished solid steel . If you need good gear marking compound , go to a local GM dealer and ask for a tube of it - theirs works quite well and it's the one thing I buy from GM . Pay really close attention to setting up that pinion preload per the factory manual - it's probably the single most important step in setting up those gears . To make things easier , if you have a heavy bench or engine stand you can quickly build a c-shaped frame to hold the gear set solidly to work on it -

Just make sure your frame is heavy material - the LC 9.5" unit isn't light and there are some serious torque requirements when setting up the diff so it has to be stout .

Sarge

 

[LEO5651]

Thank you for your information, working with the diff on a bench is well like a monkey playing with a football. Thanks for the photos also on the diff holder, we have some thick steel angle laying around so we may build something like you are showing, very nice.
As for the moving of the notches while not loosening the cap bolts, my dad made the same comment and said that we possibly may need to pull off the caps and see if the bearings have spun or just check the torque first.
The ring gear is very clean without any pitting, you may be seeing some dirt as we have not really cleaned the unit yet.
Our dad is the owner of the truck but my brother and I are the main users so we both chip in for the costs of the parts for repairs so we are now considering just buying a complete ring and pinion set and complete bearing set with seal and shims and nut. My dad suggested to buy a drop in 3rd that was ready to go (old Ford guy) but I have not seen anyone selling ready to go Toyota units with the exchange of housing. Might be out of our budget anyway.
Just for note we did find some pinion preload shims on the Rock Auto web site, pinion bearings and others items that if someone else is doing the same can check out. Yes, the one shim is solid and the other is thin and it is in horrible condition, and the bearing cone is very loose but we are not sure if that is the design for that bearing application, but other than that it is good condition.
I will pick up some marking compound as you said at the GM dealer in town.
Question, the spider gears we found so far for replacement have solid thrust/oiler washers without the oiler holes as shown in one of our photos, are the solid ones without holes just as good as the ones with holes or should we be looking for the same?


Big thanks

 

[Weber Sarge]

It's an old argument between using the shims with holes versus without - up to you .
Unless the ring and pinion are badly worn I'd run them , it's a very overbuilt diff in the first place and the oem gears are quite tough . From the pics it looks as though the entire thing was ran without any real preload on anything , especially the pinion set . If you want some good stepped instructions look into a guy named ZUK and his writeups - his stuff will apply to the 9.5" just fine and he also does setups for folks if you want to go that route .
Sarge

 

[LEO5651]

I understand that argument, I tend to lean towards the stock type (as seen) with the oiler holes than the closed shim type. I just believe that if they lasted this long, if original, maybe the holes will be a benefit.
My dad took a feeler gauge and ran it on the shiny part of the ring surface to where it meets the non shiny part of the surface on both side to check for surface drop or ridges and he said has a good surface wear to it. Not the most precise way to check but gives a basic idea of its wear.
So with that said maybe we will put new bearings on the pinion and carrier and just reused the R/P gear along with new spiders.
Will check out KUK page, any help if well worth it.
Thank you sir.

 

[Weber Sarge]

Here's a link - http://www.gearinstalls.com/

Sarge

 

[LEO5651]

Thanks we took a look and is very helpful on the 9.5 one.
I bought the GM gear paste and just waiting now on the shim set for the pinion preload setting. A friend of my dads apparently took a look at the bearings and gears and told our dad that all it needs is to be reassembled with the proper preloads and backlash and seal and it should last another 30 years.
Will probably start work on it next Monday depending on work. As soon as we start we will post our needs, hopefully none.
Thanks you

 

[Weber Sarge]

The one tool needed the most for this job is the factory service manual - not a Haynes or otherwise but genuine Toyota . It gives all the details on setup and how to set pinion preload properly .
Sarge

 

[Pin_Head]

A friend of my dads apparently took a look at the bearings and gears and told our dad that all it needs is to be reassembled with the proper preloads and backlash and seal and it should last another 30 years.

X2. It looks fine with just normal wear. Just put itback together properly and reset the backlash. If you need to tighten up the pinion preload a bit because of wear, you can thin the preload washer (the thick shim) by sanding it on 240 grit silicon carbide paper on a piece of plate glass (or a diamond plate). Measure the thickness often.

The set up in the FSM is peculiar because it says to set the pinion preload before setting the pinion depth. This always bothered me because when you change the pinion depth, you will also change the pinion preload, meaning you have to go back and reset the preload. I finally tried doing it that way and if finally dawned on me that Toyota presumes tht you have the full set of 20 preload shims, so that when you change the depth, you just pick a preload washer that changes thickness by the corresponding amount. It isn't that much work if you have the entire set. If you don't have the entire set, you will be changing the preload twice, which is a PITA.

If you are doing this, do yourself a favor and set the pinion depth first, like Zuk does.

 

[LEO5651]

We have both manuals Toyota and Haynes that we bought years ago.
My brother said (haven't seen it yet) he made a diff holder similar to yours to make the work a bit more easy when we attempt the work.
Looking forward to completing this operation.
Thank you

 

[LEO5651]

Thank you Pin_Head, I got word that the shim kit we wanted and thought was being shipped is on BO.
We read that setting the pinion death is one of the first things but we do not have any shims for that and now none for the preload.
Either now we reorder from somewhere else like Yukon with their parts SK 30291 solid depth and SK TLC preload shims or we just do as you said and sand the preload thick washer and give it a try but not to sure as all the parts have normal wear that it may be needed to remove the inner pinion bearing race to install a depth shim do to the wear. I believe I can see a .40 shim on the backside of the race right now. Oh the pain.
Thank you

 

[Pin_Head]

It is unlikely that you will need to reset the pinion depth, but go ahead and check it. If it is OK, then the original preload shims will be close too and all you may need to do is take .001 off the washer.

 

[LEO5651]

Okay I hope you guys will be proud as we are. We took an hour this afternoon and gave it the old college try with what we have. As suggested I sanded the pinion washer less than half of what .001 to start out with. With that completed we installed the washer then the shim, then slid the pinion gear into place and installed the oil slinger then the washer and installed the old nut ( just for now) and torqued to 160 foot pounds. The pinion gear preload came to 4.5 inch pound.
Then we installed the dial indicator on the differential and proceeded to adjust backlash by moving the ring side adjuster in and the other adjust out with even turns. When we reached a backlash of .008 we stopped and tighten the cap bolts to 79 foot pounds.
Then we put the yellow making compound on the gears and the pinion to see where we are at on the contact when rotated both ways. Well the picture tells the story and my apologies for the bad lighting. You can see barely the imprint's of where the gear teeth meshed, probably not enough paste was applied but it does not look bad but it also looks like in needs to be more on the center than the end. So we are thinking that the shim needs to have a bit more sanded off to lower it down to help the meshing of the gears. Any comments are more than welcome. I forgot to check when we had it all apart if the ring and pinion would be equal at the end surface as the one picture with the yellow line illustrates or is this correct as it is? We do get a bit of free play between the gears if the hold the ring gear and grab the end of the pinion shaft and rock back and forth, about a .007 play?

All in all we got it to now we have preload and a good backlash and maybe a good or close gear pattern? Due to work will have to pick this up again tomorrow.
Thank you

 

[Pin_Head]

You can't really see the tooth pattern because you only painted half of the tooth and you didn't put enough pressure on the pinion flange when you rotated the ring gear to squeeze the paint out of the contact surface.

Try again.

 

[LEO5651]

We will give it a try later today. Kind of thought that there wasn't enough paint.
We turned it by the ring gear bolts, guess we missed something there like not putting some pressure as you said on the pinion side while rotating.
Thank you

 

[Pin_Head]

With used gear sets, sometimes it is hard to get a good pattern and stay within the stock backlash specs. You may need to open up the backlash to get a nice pattern.

 

[LEO5651]

Well had some time to check it again but due to a slight problem we had to buy some more marking compound unfortunately it was in the blue color. Never leave a tube of yellow marking compound on the floor were a ATV will run it over......... We could easily track were the ATV went.
The blue is a bit harder to view but reveals a good pattern to see on the drive side but as you said Pin_Head old gears may be a problem showing up as the coast side barely shows its mesh but what we can see my dad says is not bad for its age. Of course one should always listen to your dad but we still invite a second opinion.
We are at .008 on the BL right now would it make much difference to open it up any more? Would it work in on the mesh after a bit of driving?

Thank you

 

[LEO5651]

Mr. Pin_Head we did as you suggested and moved the BL out to .011 and checked the gear mesh and there was no significant change in the pattern from prior, so we took it to .015 and only got a small change but now more backlash. We were able to get it back to around 8-.009.
We checked the pattern again and it is now the same as were we started. We were thinking that the pinion height may be the problem but as we are new to this that is just a shot in the dark.
If you really see no problem with what we have now we can installed it a see to give it a test run.
Thank you

 

[Weber Sarge]

I'd reset the pinion depth just slightly , it's pretty close as-is . If you want the clearest pattern reading , hold a gloved hand on the edge of the ring gear to create some heavy drag on it and rotate the pinion - it will make a more distinct mark that way . You should be able to get a more centered pattern and still land within the backlash spec as well .
Sarge

 

[LEO5651]

Yes sir we can shave a bit more off of the washer if that's what you mean I was thinking it would need a .0001 shim many. So bring it in a hair more.
Will have to do this sometime in this coming week and we will try the heavy drag also.
Were getting close.
Thank you

 

[Pin_Head]

I wouldn't fool with it. you have been driving around with it set tht way and if it has been fine, I would leave it.