Project Toy-Audi

[BiffS]

** Disclaimer** this entire project is intended to be something quite different. I've already heard enough of the "just put in a SBC" and things like that, so it's already been covered: not going to happen.

History:

This is a 1980 FJ 40 Landcruiser that was equipped with a 2F motor. That motor has been sold to a buyer in Louisiana, and is happily sitting under a 74 -FJ 40.
All the original engine related items have been removed and are long gone now. That an the 750 pounds of cast iron wonder. I've been suffering with the carb since I've had this truck and decided that fuel injection is the way to go. No TBI, No TPI, no GM anything.

I've had many VWs and Audis, thus: Project ToyAudi has been born.

Stats: 2.8L Narrow angle V6: 184 BHP @ 4200 RPM. Torque 215 LBS @ 3300 RPM, 400 pound engine complete, Fully fuel injected with a MAF setup, 3 ignition coils and a low clearance oil sump. This motor is intended to get jostled around.

Vehicle: 80 FJ 40 with 4 link front and rear, Fox 18" airshox, HADL driveshafts cut n turned front axle and 1 ton steering gear. Engine will be mated up to the factory 4 speed and T case.


Interesting notes: As well as being 350 pounds heavier than the 2F, it's even 14" shorter in length, and 4 inches lower in height. All in all, I figure that I can keep the engine weight down low and more towards the center of the truck.

Progress will be slow and methodical, so please bear with me.


Before:


2F on the way out.


4 rings. . .


Test fit in the bay. note how far back the motor sits with regards to the shock towers.


Side view.

[Steve-O]

Very different, havent heard of this one yet. What will you be doing for adapting the motor to the stock 4 speed? Was the donor vehicle a manual or automatic?

[awp_cruiser]

"Engine will be mated up to the factory 4 speed and T case. "

That is interesting. Are you going to have a bell housing made? You going to use the factory fuel tank?


AWP

[Eskimo]

Wow... after messing with the ECU in my 1.8T, I couldn't even IMAGINE where to start on a 2.8 into a non-VAG vehicle.

[BiffS]

The factory 4 speed bell housing has a machined flat surface on it . It looks like i can get some new holes punched in that will line up with the Audi block.

I'm already running a Jaz pro-sport fuel cell in the back behind the axle.

Donor vehicle was a 1996 A6 Quattro automatic. i can shunt the neutral start circuit and it won't be a problem.

Luckily Canadian motors don't have the additional emissions stuff that US versions do.

[Waggoner5]

Keep in mind of all the OBDII parts that need to be addressed like both O2 sensors, pressurized fuel system with vapor purging, etc. Sounds like a cool project. Can't wait to hear the outcome.
Gary

[metalonmetal]

man you got my attention, are you actually located in vancouver or just near it? i'd love to see this setup

[jerseyfzj80]

biffs,
That sure looks like a 12v motor to me I worked for auid for 6 years in the usa and the thirty valve motors (starting motor code AHA) don't look like that. In us trim i think they were 167 hp and then 190lb ft of torque. You should really be hunting for a 300hp 4.2l all aluminum v8 from the A8 now that is a kickin motor and would make that 40 stomp!
good luck check out www.034motorsports.com they make VAG stand alone engine management stuff cool guys with some insanely fast 5 cyl audis

[BiffS]

I'm located ub by UBC area.

THe engine i believe is an ACK code.

for the AFC engine, the details are as follows for USA version.

• 2.8L / 169in3 / 2771cm3 displacement
• Maximum output: 174bhp DIN (128kW) @ 5500rpm
• Maximum torque: 250Nm (184ft. lbs.) @ 3000rpm
• Maximum engine speed: 6700rpm
• Bore: 3.25in / 82.5mm
• Stroke: 3.40in / 86.4mm
• Compression ratio: 10.3:1
• Accurate fuel metering by means of a heated-wire
  air mass sensor
• Dual stage multi-path intake manifold
  • Short intake path: 380mm
  • Long intake path: 780mm
• Engine code: AAH, AFC
• Weight: 355lbs / 161kg
• Length: 17in / 432mm

Note the weight. That's my major selling point as wellas the fuel injection. I'm also interested in how the torque peaks out at around 3000ish RPM.

I had a 30 valve A4 for a while, and that inspired the selection of this type of engine. I'd love to have gone 30 valve, but i doubt that i could afford one and i would HATE to try to figure out how the drive-by-wire system works.

Anyone got a link for an 8A0 Wiring harness? I've got both Ho2 sensors and the manifolds. I might even run the cats to keep the gassy smell down.


More engine details at www.12v.org

[gnx7]

That is certainly a different swap!

Just wanted to give you some weight references and power outputs:

I have a 3.8i (231ci) Buick Grand National turbo/intercooled motor that would make about 350ft/lbs tq at 3K RPM stock and 300hp all the way to its low 5400rpm redline. It weighs 420lbs fully dressed with all accessories, parts are relatively cheap on it and having a chip burned for it is only $75 for perfect tuning on whatever gas you have available. With lightweight starter ($90 new) and no a/c it would be be around 380lbs.

An LS1 all aluminum 346ci V8 weighs 480lbs with all accessories and will make 350ft/lbs tq at 2K RPM and pull to 6500rpm+ and make 400hp+ at 5000rpm+.

I hope that engine will have enuf power for the trails. I'm sure with enuf gearing you can do what you want.

[BiffS]

Useful info to note.

I was trying to keep it normally aspirated, and most importantly fuel efficient as well as injected. The comparisons that i've made are relative to the 2F which came out, so i'm basing my reasoning on that. Plus i'm just a bit bent, so i thought i'd try something different.

original 2F made something like 150 Hp and 170 FT lbs or something like that. I might consider a mild cam or chip to get more out of it if i feel the need, but i think this will be suitable power upgrade over a carbed 2F. I'm also doing away with the power robbing emissions crapola, as this will pass testing with straight pipes, let alone emission equipment.

Progress report:

Didn't get much time over the weekend (helping a friend move) so i've only been able to look at the wiring mostly. The 2F flywheel is about 2 inches larger in diameter than the Audi version. I think i might need to look for a manual transmission flywheel and bell housing as a starting point for mating the two up.

One other discovery is that it will sit too far back in the engine bay if i mate it directly to the LC bell housing, so an adapter plate and stand off from the crank might be a good idea.

I'll post more pics and info this week.

[bad_religion_au]

sure you've got 35 more FT lbs of torque, but look where it is in the rev range. the 2f rocks my world because it'll drag a cruiser along at 300 rpm BUT i like your out of the box train of thought, i wish you well with it

[89s rule]

I want to follow this, very interesting, and very "out of the box" Something I certainly would not do, but its cooler than the usual chevy V8.

[BiffS]

Yeah, the low RPM grunt of the 2F can't be matched, that's for sure. In fact, some V8 guys say that a 2F will out soldier a V8 at the low, low RPM. The V of this motor will definitely provide some good low end, as well as provide some useable top too.

It looks like i might have to take a walk on the dark side: This motor is SO short that it will sit extremely far back under the cowl if I don't make some changes. I guess i'll need to think about a SM 465 or 420 or something. . . Dang. . .

check out how low this engine is slung in the bay. there's probably about 10+ inches between the top of the motor and the hood. There's also about 20 inched from the back of where the rad would be as well. The motor is also EXTREMELY low slung in the bay, it looks like i'll have to move my upper contorl arms to make it all fit in.

[CruisinGA]

Originally Posted by BiffS

It looks like i might have to take a walk on the dark side: This motor is SO short that it will sit extremely far back under the cowl if I don't make some changes. I guess i'll need to think about a SM 465 or 420 or something. . . Dang. .

Not sure where the SM420/465 will help, shifter tower is in a similar location to the toy trannies. (If understand you need to move the engine forward some and keep the shifter far enough back so that it is out of the heater...)

Not to discourage you though, as it seems you will definatly need more gearing than you have already with that engine...

More power to ya

[BiffS]

Originally Posted by CruisinGA

Not to discourage you though, as it seems you will definatly need more gearing than you have already with that engine...

good point. Anyone try doubling the 465 or 420? i have room to spare. . .

[Advent]

Thought about adapting a Ranger under/overdrive? That'd move it forward a bit.

[BiffS]

Originally Posted by Advent

Thought about adapting a Ranger under/overdrive? That'd move it forward a bit.

No, I've never heard of that one. Got details? Right now i'm researching dual T cases or dual trannies. . . Can't seem to find any dual H 42s out there. THe Toybox is far too spendie for my budget.

[Advent]

http://www.man-a-fre.com/parts_acces...20Splitter.htm

It goes between the engine and transmission. It's available in 15 or 25% over or underdrives.

But it sounds like it's more than you want to spend...

[Kaderabek]

I own a Cruiser and I own an Audi. Never thought to combine the two. Right on.

TJK

[CruisinGA]

Look at www.advanceadapters.com for various overdrives/underdrives

The double tranny thing is difficult unless the second tranny is a non-synchronized unit, as the synchros on these trannies are not stout enough to slow the weight of another tranny mainshaft in front of it.

Originally Posted by BiffS

No, I've never heard of that one. Got details? Right now i'm researching dual T cases or dual trannies. . . Can't seem to find any dual H 42s out there. THe Toybox is far too spendie for my budget.

[fng55]

two thoughts for you:
an nv4500 will add the length/gearing you want.
or... in the gm/chevy 1.5-2.5 ton trucks (3100-4600) the sm420 was bolted to a spicer rangebox or secondary trans that had 1 or two over or under drive gears. might be hard to find but this has the same output as the sm420 and bolts right to the back of it.
cool build-up! carl

[hendo]

looks like you are working hard being light in the engine compartment, why not go light in the gearbox section aswell ,a nv4500 must be heavier than the eng you got, why not got automatic and save some weight

[BiffS]

A bit of a change of plans now.

I've decided to go with a Mini-truck tranny and t case using a Marlin adaptor to continue to run my cruiser T case (Doubler). That would provide a 153:1 ratio and dual cases. . .

It would also provide me the added length from the shifter to the engine bay.

-This would acomplish a few things: my nice virtually new HADL shafts would not have to be modified,

- proven toyota tranny

- dual cases

- 6.5" additional length over stock with the extra case.

- smaller clutch and flywheel diameter to better adapt to the Audi engine.


For those that have or have driven the Audi's I'm sure that you'll understand the low end that those motors can put out. I was originally looking for a 2.7 BT but a twin turbo motor on the trail might not be that useful.

I'll pick up the tranny on the weekend, and add the marlin adaptor next week!

Yeh progress!

[BiffS]

Have finally got around to getting the tranny and tcase from a mini. Tcase looks good inside, but the 2wd / 4wd shift fork broke during roll pin removal. Not a big deal as the that fork gets de-comissioned anyhow, but it's still a bit of a pain. Marlin dual adapter is on the way now, and a test fit of the tranny indicates that it will push the motor about 8" in front of the firewall. Room good!




Pulled of the bell housing, it is close to a bolt up to the Audi motor. Should require a simple plate to get it up to the mini tranny. I'm looking at the possibility of using the Audi manual transmission flywheel, and adapting the mini flywheel and pressure plate for maximum compatibility.



Also got the wiring sorted out off the harness. Most if the original harness is intact and can be mated up to the original positions of the connectors.

[ats4x4dotcom]

When I wanted my 40 "outside the square" I made it 98" wheelbase, and fitted a 400hp and 660ft lb [@ the wheels] 454 mounted 3" further back than standard for balance, with 75 series power steering and 4 wheel disc brakes, and 60 series springs.

Those audi bits have just f%$@#d up a good 40

[BiffS]

to each their own i guess.

Some competition rock buggies use Subaru, Ecotech, even Toyota Matrix engines.

Why not go with a race bred / proven motor when my interest is obviously not to smoke my tires up every rock face that i encounter?

Trust me, my Cruiser can do fine with out Wet Coast terrain as it was, now it gets better!

(and yes, i know the fog lite covers are gay. . .)