Winch Opinions Sought From Owners

[Wasatch Jay]

As the title says I'm looking for opinions on winches from those who actually own (and have used) them. (I'm really looking at 12,000 lb winches.)

There's a bunch of manufacturers out there and with the Ironman bumpers requirement of a "feet down" mounting style that rules out my first choice of the Warn M12000.

So what about the Warn VR12000, the Titan TW12000, Ironman itself offers winches, etc, etc?

So please share your thoughts on the good, the bad and the ugly...

 

[Duiser Offroad]

Can't go wrong with Warn, its the one and only brand as far as I'm concerned. Every other brand you just compare to Warn anyway.

The VR series is meant to be entry level and affordable. We just tested the snot out of a VR10,000 pulling a stuck Unimog out and were pleasantly surprised by its abilities.

Warn is also offering a $100 rebate, good time to buy.

As the title says I'm looking for opinions on winches from those who actually own (and have used) them. (I'm really looking at 12,000 lb winches.)

There's a bunch of manufacturers out there and with the Ironman bumpers requirement of a "feet down" mounting style that rules out my first choice of the Warn M12000.

So what about the Warn VR12000, the Titan TW12000, Ironman itself offers winches, etc, etc?

So please share your thoughts on the good, the bad and the ugly...

 

[CappyKD]

As the title says I'm looking for opinions on winches from those who actually own (and have used) them. (I'm really looking at 12,000 lb winches.) There's a bunch of manufacturers out there and with the Ironman bumpers requirement of a "feet down" mounting style that rules out my first choice of the Warn M12000. So what about the Warn VR12000, the Titan TW12000, Ironman itself offers winches, etc, etc? So please share your thoughts on the good, the bad and the ugly...

I went with the VR 12,000 and have been happy with it .

 

[Sandroad]

There is also a forum on Mud just for winches.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/winching-recovery/

 

[Southeast Overland]

Warn VRs are nice. A more affordable price than the Zeons (which rock) but still backed by Warn.

A less expensive option is Engo.

Yup - dont forget about Warn's current $100 rebate.

We carry both of those lines.

 

[Josie'sLandCruiser]

Hi all,

If a Warn M12 won't fit your bumper, than I doubt a Warn VR12 will.

What vehicle will this electric winch go on?

How is the vehicle set-up?

How is this rig used?

For serious winching of a vehicle needing a 12K winch I would vote for a Superwinch Husky, Ramsey RE, etc.

Regards,

Alan

 

[Tapage]

Put another option on your list .. SuperWinch .. they used to do hell of a winch ..

 

[Warn Industries]

Hi all,

If a Warn M12 won't fit your bumper, than I doubt a Warn VR12 will.

What vehicle will this electric winch go on?

How is the vehicle set-up?

How is this rig used?

For serious winching of a vehicle needing a 12K winch I would vote for a Superwinch Husky, Ramsey RE, etc.

Regards,

Alan

The VR12000 and M12000 are actually different winch frames. The VR has a smaller body (what we call a mid-frame design), whereas the M12000 has a bigger frame (large frame). The VR12 mounts feet down. The M12 mounts feet forward.

You can view the dimensions here:
http://www.warn.com/truck/winches/VR12000_winch.shtml
http://www.warn.com/truck/winches/src/M1200.shtml

Andy

 

[Douglas S]

Can't go wrong with Warn, its the one and only brand as far as I'm concerned. Every other brand you just compare to Warn anyway.

While Warn undoubtedly makes great winches (I run an 8274) there are as good if not better options out there. Superwinch Husky series comes to mind, Red Winches out of the UK is another.

 

[Wasatch Jay]

Hi all,

If a Warn M12 won't fit your bumper, than I doubt a Warn VR12 will.

What vehicle will this electric winch go on?

How is the vehicle set-up?

How is this rig used?

For serious winching of a vehicle needing a 12K winch I would vote for a Superwinch Husky, Ramsey RE, etc.


Regards,

Alan

Alan, Thanks for your suggestions.


The response by Warn Industries explains the differences...

Vehicle is an LX470 and I am planning on purchasing an Ironman front bumper. That bumper requires a feet down mounting style.

The Ramsey RE series (I have an RE 8000 for a different vehicle) are worm drive winches and I'm quite sure the gearbox would not clear the Ironman's winch mounting bracket.

 

[subzali]

doesn't ironman have a website that shows which winches are compatible with their bumpers? ARB does...

 

[CappyKD]

Alan, Thanks for your suggestions.


The response by Warn Industries explains the differences...

Vehicle is an LX470 and I am planning on purchasing an Ironman front bumper. That bumper requires a feet down mounting style.

The Ramsey RE series (I have an RE 8000 for a different vehicle) are worm drive winches and I'm quite sure the gearbox would not clear the Ironman's winch mounting bracket.

I'm running the IronMan front bar and the VR12000 on a 2001 LX. I'm very happy with the setup.

 

[Wasatch Jay]

Thanks Kirk,

I appreciate all of your responses on this thread and the ones on bumpers on the 100 series forum. Your commentary and photos have been VERY helpful.

 

[OregonLC]

I have the TW12 on an Ironman Deluxe Commercial and it fits great. Feet down is no problem and handle access through the top is very easy. The TW12 solenoid box comes with brackets designed to attach onto the cross drum bars. There's not enough space above the winch to use this 'feature' so I modified the mounting of the solenoid and mounted it directly in front of the air box. This makes for (relatively) short leads to the winch and keeps the electronics out of the weather and gunk. You do have to open the hood to attach the remote, although with the wireless you can leave the receiver plugged in full time on the trail.

Regarding the winch itself, I'm happy to say that I've not had to 'use' it yet! The only 'use' it's had has been playing around with it. It's a solid unit and appears to work as designed. The only complaint I have is that its mechanically noisy. There's quite a bit of clatter going on in the gear box. I was actually worried about this until I heard my friend's Engo which sounded exactly the same. And it's not like Warn are whisper quiet either. This winter I'll probably open up the box and throw some more grease at it to see if that helps. The only other thing I would caution about the TW12 at this point would be the wireless reaction time; it's not instantaneous. There is 1/2 second lag from releasing the button until the winch stops. Probably not critical, but it's enough lag that you notice it. Doesn't happen when using the wired control.

For the price (I got it on a GB back in 2011) it was a good value. IIRC I'm in it for around $600. A comparable Warn would be $1,100. I guess time will tell if it was truly a good value or not. True that a recovery device isn't something you want to go 'cheap' on, but I just don't see the value in Warn other than the brand. They sure do a lot of advertising to build up the image that they're the best and most reliable, yet when you start looking at the internals they're actually made with inferior parts to the 'off brands'. The new Zeon line do look nice, we'll see how they hold up as they get used more on the trail.

 

[Wasatch Jay]

The noise comment piqued my interest and I emailed back-and-forth with one of my very best friends who is a "gear guru". He has been involved with gear design and production his entire working life; over 30 years. I could go on but the point is he is eminently qualified to discuss this issue. I asked him about the noise and this is what he said:

"In the trade it's said, accurate gears are quiet gears. What is meant is, with proper conjugate motion you have teeth going smoothly in and out of mesh. Noise is result of a harmonic or vibration due to meshing error.

Such error is either a design or manufacturing flaw. Design is straight forward. For conjugate motion, you always need a pair of teeth in mesh or a contact ratio of 1.0 Having a slightly higher, (debatable value) say 1.3 contact ratio allows for sharing of load over more teeth and a bit smoother action. Two methods to achieve higher contact ratio, smaller teeth, or helical gears.

Planetary gear sets generally have so many teeth pair in mesh that contact ratio is a non issue.

Manufacturing error generating noise is likely either pitch error or pitch line runout. Meaning either the teeth are not accurately spaced around the gear, or the gear got egg shaped in heat treat. Could also be a sloppy set up with fixture runout.

On planetary sets, the outside ring gear is near impossible to keep round in heat treat."

I sent him a link to the TW 12000 photos on page one of the group buy thread to get his thoughts:

"Surprised to see a stamping as the carrier. Pinion spacing is critical, and no way a fabricated stamping could meet tolerance. If it could be reliably done, automotive transmissions would be all over it. Instead, carriers used in automatics for diesel apps have become very robust. Some have gone to 5 and 6 pinion designs. Center bearing/bushing is a non issue. There is little or no radial load on the center sun gear.

One of the points not shown in the photos is pinion bearing arrangement. Curious if bushings or full complement rollers."

 

[JohnnyC]

love my pierce winch... it is slow.... but VERY powerful!!

worm gear winch is great

Link>>> https://forum.ih8mud.com/winching-recovery/283740-pierce-winch.html

 

[Jetboy]

Hate to say it but... HF winches aren't too bad. I have used one on my 4runner for 3 years and probably at least a thousand pulls (I use it for a snowplow among other things including pulling downed trees and other construction use) and it's been pretty darn reliable. I have an 8274 on my landcruiser and it's a great winch - fast and powerful, but they are $$$, big, and heavy.

Why do you need a 12k lb winch? I haven't seen many 100's (actually I'm not sure I've ever seen a hundy on anything over 35s) with the capability to get stuck enough to need 12k lbs of winch.

 

[cruiserdan]

I have owned the M8000 Warn that is currently on my wife's 80 for 25 years. That winch has been on a 1 ton Dodge truck and two Land Cruisers. It has NEVER failed to operate in a quarter century. I have an M12000 on my 80 and that is a great winch as well. 80s are very heavy (as are 100s) and they tend to get professionally stuck and 12k is much better than 8k.

 

[Jetboy]

I can't say that my 8274 has been as reliable as your Warn. I think I still have somewhere the remains of a bellevue - the main case cracked. I replaced with an 8274 I have now. I've had one of the captured nuts and surrounding housing break off. I've replaced first drive engagement gear, the brake parts - which are now due again for a rebuild, the solenoids, and the drum seal leaks. Not saying I don't like it, but it hasn't always been reliable.

Then again it's been on the front of a few dedicated 4x4s that get put through a bit more than my stocker 4runner. That's why I'm a bit surprised at the need for 12k. Stock rigs don't get into the same kind of trouble as a more dedicated offroaders. I suppose if you start with a 5k lb 100 then add another 1500 lbs of people and gear it does get pretty heavy though.

 

[Red Wagon]

Then again it's been on the front of a few dedicated 4x4s that get put through a bit more than my stocker 4runner. That's why I'm a bit surprised at the need for 12k. Stock rigs don't get into the same kind of trouble as a more dedicated offroaders. I suppose if you start with a 5k lb 100 then add another 1500 lbs of people and gear it does get pretty heavy though.

Add water weight or mud and resistance from pulling through goo and it adds up even more. Especially in IFS rigs and no skid plate. Even axles act like a plow when it's deep muck.