why hasn't an after market tune been developed for our 5.7's

Discussion in '200-Series Cruisers' started by Blasst, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. Blasst

    Blasst

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    Seems like there is a tune improvement available for just about everything....diesels, sports cars, etc.

    Why not our Landcruisers? I guess it would void the warranty...but many don't care or the warranty is no longer an issue. So what's up with that?
     
  2. Markuson

    Markuson SILVER Star

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    I suspect it may come down to the tiny tuner demand within an already-tiny niche vehicle market.

    Tuning specialists/marketers aren’t terribly motivated to spend time on a niche version of a huge SUV that only sells a couple thousand per year nation-wide.

    :meh:
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
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  3. Blasst

    Blasst

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    yeah but the Tundra has to be considered in those sales numbers. It just seems as long as the 5.7 has been made somebody would have done it. Dunno....but it always has confused me. I am confused enough most of the time already with just daily life...... :)
     
  4. bjorn240

    bjorn240

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    Diesels have tunes because they all have turbos. Allow a bit more boost and gas with a tune and presto, instant horsepower.

    On a normally aspirated engine, it’s significantly more complicated to get more power.

    In my case, I’m not even sure what I’d want from an ECU reflash - other than permanently turning off the TPMS system. And I’m not opposed to flashing ECUs - I have programmed engine management systems (MoTec mostly) for race cars, and I have a Ivan-flashed Yamaha.
     
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  5. Blasst

    Blasst

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    Very interesting. Thanks for the input.
     
  6. bjorn240

    bjorn240

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    The Ivan flash for Yamaha R1/FZ1 bikes is a really worthwhile flash for a normally aspirated engine, as an example.

    It changes the fueling across the whole Load/RPM map and removes fuel cut, resulting in much quicker throttle response. It also lowers the temperature where the fan comes on from 212f to 200f. It substantially improves the character of the motorcycle.

    I’m pretty happy with the fueling and performance of my LX... so maybe the answer for lack of maps/tunes for the 5.7 is that Toyota got it right the first time!
     
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  7. M1911

    M1911

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    Because you are not going to get much out of a tune of a naturally aspirated engine.

    Turbocharged engines can get a lot out of a tune, particularly if the manufacturer tuned it for regular gas and you commit to using premium. But there isn’t much to gain from a naturally aspirated engine.
     
  8. Ali M

    Ali M

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    Some folks here tried the safest route to semi-tuning with the plug and play Pedal Commander module.
     
  9. M1911

    M1911

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    Doesn’t that just change the pedal mapping? I don’t think it changes the engine tune itself.
     
  10. Markuson

    Markuson SILVER Star

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    I flashed my little turbo WRX and it definitely improved the power band, smoothness, turbo lag, and also removed the MPH governor—which meant I soon proceeded to 154mph at the pin. :)

    I always have the impression that most stock tunes are trying to eek out as much MOG as possible as automakers struggle to meet regulations from the EPAM (EPA Maniacs) :)
     
  11. bloc

    bloc SILVER Star

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    While that is a major goal, it isn't just fuel efficiency.. companies like toyota really do want to make these engines last a long time.
     
  12. Markuson

    Markuson SILVER Star

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    No doubt about that. Part of my thought was that I suspect most tunes for the extra power people hope for would likely make the 5.7 even thirstier. :confused: Yikes

    Maybe Pedal commander can stand in for a tune as it does seem to offer some tuner-like tweaks... @mgaskins has already noted various effects on MPG/power shifts, etc...

    I dunno...
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
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  13. mcgaskins

    mcgaskins

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    Not nearly as relevant to pre 16 200s, but this thread has some good info on the PC which is like a quasi tune. Plenty of people have tried it now with extremely positive results, and you can see one person even said it was like adding 150 horsepower.

    Pedal Commander or other throttle controller thoughts?
     
  14. Markuson

    Markuson SILVER Star

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    Ya, like you say, I doubt a 6 speed benefits as much. Just not many shift points for the PC to work with.
     
  15. 04UZJ100

    04UZJ100

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    Toyota is notorious for locking down the ECUs which prevents aftermarket companies from messing with them.
     
  16. bloc

    bloc SILVER Star

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    Are they just particularly good at it?

    I’m pretty sure every auto manufacturer attempts at least some level of encryption to avoid tampering. Obviously not much of a roadblock for many tuners.
     
  17. swatski

    swatski GOLD Star

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    I haven't tried the PC27, yet. D.A.P. tunes these engines, even N/As without SCs.
    But I find plain stock this 5.7 power plant is just fantastic and pulls like a mule.

    I have been using 93 octane which seems to get a little more timing out of the ECU, but frankly I only do this because we tow quite a bit and I can use all the help I can get. Otherwise I'm not sure I would bother. The difference is mostly in shift points at highway speeds.

    --
     
  18. TeCKis300

    TeCKis300

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    I’ve had my hand tuning numerous vehicles. Via standalones, piggybacks, and flashing OEM ECU’s (where possible). I’ve tuned my share of modded N/A and turbo’d Lexus’s (Lexi?), including my own supra twin turbo swapped 6-speed IS300. I moonlight tuning my personal Porsche 911 Turbo, to a safe 650hp. I’ll say I’m slightly qualified in this matter.

    Toyota ECU’s are notoriously locked down. In the decades of someone being “close” to reverse engineering their ECU’s, I have yet to see a flasher on the market to directly tune their ECU’s. Honda’s have it with Hondata; Cobb tuners for subbies, Porches, BMW; Bully Dog for Nissan, Ford’s, etc. And many more that I did not list. But actual flash tuning for Toyota? I haven’t looked in a couple years but I still believe it’s unobtanium.

    Which means one has to resort to piggybacks like Unichips. These are a much more expensive and an involved to install proposition.

    That said, for N/A motors, there’s really not much additional performance on the table. At least without long term durability compromises, as OEM tune their motors to a high degree. For fuel efficiency and emissions, but that’s generally aligned with performance.

    Engine tuning boils down to ignition timing and fueling. One can gain HP via advancing ignition or leaning out air/fuel. Again, not much more safe HP on the table with ignition, unless one wants to walk into the margin area where there is increased pre-ignition, knock, and stress on rods. Fueling is generally where tuners make more of their HP. They tend to run fueling leaner. So instead of air/fuel ratio’s in the 10:1 or close to 11:1 boundary, they may lean it out to 11.5:1. The actual values depend on the motor and rpm/load. But generally, they will lean things out. This always causes the motor to run hotter. Which again, walks closer to the pre-ignition/knock boundary, and potentially compromising long term durability.

    The one honest hp gain here is a tune which takes advantage of higher octane. This allows tuning to legitimately run advanced timing, without getting into the marginal safe area. But one would also have to commit to always running 91/93 octane, unless there is a tune switch that allows one to switch back and forth.
     
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  19. TeCKis300

    TeCKis300

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    Tuning throttle maps by making the throttle pedal tip in more aggressive is not really tuning in my mind. Yet tuners use this egregiously, because it creates a perceived “performance” increase as the motor responds more readily. “Quasi tune” describes it well. I draw this line because it makes zero more hp. A tune should actually create more engine output. I can just as easily tune my foot to step on the gas more.

    I’m generally very against this style of tuning, especially for high horsepower cars or track work. What it effectively does is reduce the granularity/fidelity of the throttle pedal to fine tune delivered output. Sure, not so important for a 400hp 6000lb SUV. But in a 650hp 3200lbs missile balancing traction in a corner at the edge of adhesion, the engines response can be too coarse.

    By the same token to your point, it can and will make a difference. For our cars, there’s one actually built in. That magic ECT PWR. And it probably goes farther, in that it changes throttle maps, shift points, and very likely VVTi maps such that it keeps the motor on boil more aggressively through transitions. At the cost of some mpg efficiency. Very useful when under tow!
     
  20. 04UZJ100

    04UZJ100

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    Yes. Like Apple good at locking them down.
     
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