Where Did All The 100's Go?

[Kaleeb]

So I've wanted a Land Cruiser for the last 8 years (ever since I read about some guy driving around the world in one). At the time I was a broke college student and it just wasn't in the cards. Fast forward to today and my old Subaru is finally worn out and needs to be replaced. I've been doing a ton of research and spending too much time on Mud learning what to look out for and how to thoroughly inspect a 100 series (I've even made a pre-purchase spreadsheet/checklist to keep it all straight. . . I'm and engineer/nerd, what can I say).

While lurking on here a week or so ago I saw a post from somebody that said the LX 470 was sold at a 6 to 1 ratio over the LC in the states. Based on what I'm seeing available in my local market those numbers didn't sound right. I pulled the sales data from carsalesbase.com for both the LC and LX 470 and was puzzled by what I saw.

Land Cruiser		Lexus LX 470
Year	Units Sold (US)	Year	Units Sold (US)
2007	3251	2007	2468
2006	3376	2006	5595
2005	4870	2005	8555
2004	6778	2004	9846
2003	6671	2003	9193
2002	6752	2002	9231
2001	7591	2001	9355
2000	15509	2000	14732
1999	18602	1999	15734
1998	14327	1998	11004
Total Sales	87727	Total Sales	95713

Yeah the 470 sold more than the LC but not at the 6:1 ratio that that person claimed. What was really interesting to me is the huge drop off in sales/demand in 2001. As far as I know there wasn't much changed from the 2000 to 2001 model year especially anything that would make people LESS interested in the LC platform.

Any ideas why that happened? I mean the LC lost more than half of it's sales from one year to the next. What was going on?

 

[bamabrock]

So I've wanted a Land Cruiser for the last 8 years (ever since I read about some guy driving around the world in one). At the time I was a broke college student and it just wasn't in the cards. Fast forward to today and my old Subaru is finally worn out and needs to be replaced. I've been doing a ton of research and spending too much time on Mud learning what to look out for and how to thoroughly inspect a 100 series (I've even made a pre-purchase spreadsheet/checklist to keep it all straight. . . I'm and engineer/nerd, what can I say).

While lurking on here a week or so ago I saw a post from somebody that said the LX 470 was sold at a 6 to 1 ratio over the LC in the states. Based on what I'm seeing available in my local market those numbers didn't sound right. I pulled the sales data from carsalesbase.com for both the LC and LX 470 and was puzzled by what I saw.

Land Cruiser		Lexus LX 470
Year	Units Sold (US)	Year	Units Sold (US)
2007	3251	2007	2468
2006	3376	2006	5595
2005	4870	2005	8555
2004	6778	2004	9846
2003	6671	2003	9193
2002	6752	2002	9231
2001	7591	2001	9355
2000	15509	2000	14732
1999	18602	1999	15734
1998	14327	1998	11004
Total Sales	87727	Total Sales	95713

Yeah the 470 sold more than the LC but not at the 6:1 ratio that that person claimed. What was really interesting to me is the huge drop off in sales/demand in 2001. As far as I know there wasn't much changed from the 2000 to 2001 model year especially anything that would make people LESS interested in the LC platform.

Any ideas why that happened? I mean the LC lost more than half of it's sales from one year to the next. What was going on?

Toyota came out with the sequoia and tanked the land cruiser sales with a cheaper, bigger SUV with similar features. the cruiser became a niche vehicle after that.

Toyota Sequoia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Here's the sequoia sales:

Calendar year	US	Canada
2000	9,925[14]	n/a
2001	68,574[14]	n/a
2002	70,187[15]	n/a
2003	67,067[15]	n/a
2004	58,114[16]	562[17]
2005	45,904[16]	477[17]
2006	34,315[18]	377[17]
2007	23,273[18]	195[17]

 

[TTViper]

Interesting to know. I came across just as many LC candidates while looking for a 100 as I did LX. The main difference to me was the LX was much easier to find in good shape. So many of the LCs are beat and lack service records.

It’s also interesting to know the sequoia hurt sales that much, and kind of sad.

 

[JaySleigher]

ff you were working in 2000, the market and economy was awesome - but all of a sudden at the end the year, things went sideways. 2001 was awful! Surprised for such a pricey vehicle, the drop isn't more dramatic.

 

[guardcompany]

ff you were working in 2000, the market and economy was awesome - but all of a sudden at the end the year, things went sideways. 2001 was awful! Surprised for such a pricey vehicle, the drop isn't more dramatic.

This ^

There was an article where a Toyota employee talked about exactly that. I can't find it now. The jump between 2000 and 2001 is a pretty crazy drop. Out west here when I was looking (I looked for 6 months) I saw more LXs thats LCs, almost 2 to 1.

 

[krice118]

It is funny, seems maybe people hold on to LCs longer than LXs? also I htink the suspensoin on the LX shys alot of people away

 

[95Fantasma80]

It is funny, seems maybe people hold on to LCs longer than LXs? also I htink the suspensoin on the LX shys alot of people away

that is my assumption as well why LX seem more prevalent on the used market, luxury car owners are more likely to trade up as well
whereas toyota owners proven by sequiao and many others models they keep for life.

 

[suprarx7nut]

The Land Cruiser is generally the longest owned vehicle. Period. Out of any make and model across the board. Audi TT and Porsche were on the list, too. Generally, the person that's going to spend a significant premium for a "Toyota" is going into it with specific and purposeful intentions. It's not just a car purchase persuaded by a suave salesman because Joe Schmoe needed an extra car seat space and they had a green one on the lot ready to go.

The LX on the other hand starts out as a pricey SUV that depreciates heavily. The people that buy it new are unlikely to own anything, save perhaps an inherited exotic, for longer than a few years. It'll get replaced before the warranty runs out. On the used end, for many people it falls into the category of "expensive to maintain" so as soon as suspension failures start popping up that can cost $5k to repair at a dealer, owners are more likely to play hot potato. I think that's why you see LX's in the classifieds more than the LC.

As an enthusiast, though, they're both great. Since I spend a ton of time on the highway with mine, I kinda wish I had bought an LX for the added sound deadening and creature comforts.

 

[jLB]

The Land Cruiser is generally the longest owned vehicle. Period. Out of any make and model across the board. Audi TT and Porsche were on the list, too. Generally, the person that's going to spend a significant premium for a "Toyota" is going into it with specific and purposeful intentions. It's not just a car purchase persuaded by a suave salesman because Joe Schmoe needed an extra car seat space and they had a green one on the lot ready to go.

The LX on the other hand starts out as a pricey SUV that depreciates heavily. The people that buy it new are unlikely to own anything, save perhaps an inherited exotic, for longer than a few years. It'll get replaced before the warranty runs out. On the used end, for many people it falls into the category of "expensive to maintain" so as soon as suspension failures start popping up that can cost $5k to repair at a dealer, owners are more likely to play hot potato. I think that's why you see LX's in the classifieds more than the LC.

As an enthusiast, though, they're both great. Since I spend a ton of time on the highway with mine, I kinda wish I had bought an LX for the added sound deadening and creature comforts.

I only owned my 94 Toyota 80 series (94-04) for 10 years, and have now owned my 06 Lexus 100 series (06-19) for 13 years...

I guess I'm doing it wrong

Thank you for showing me the error of my ways

 

[95Fantasma80]

I only owned my 94 Toyota 80 series (94-04) for 10 years, and have now owned my 06 Lexus 100 series (06-19) for 13 years...

I guess I'm doing it wrong

Thank you for showing me the error of my ways

I'm sure there are more like you, but the bulk of those LX purchases were likely luxury items that get traded up when the new smell is over...

My one owner LX belonged to business owner who bought in 2001 and traded in 2018 for a Jeep. 17-18 years is amazing and I'm sad he didn't get to take it to 200k because he traded it in at 189 with 0 mechanical issues and limited appearance issues such as dents and leather tears which i have now fixed and its a looker now for being close to 20 year vehicle.

 

[suprarx7nut]

I only owned my 94 Toyota 80 series (94-04) for 10 years, and have now owned my 06 Lexus 100 series (06-19) for 13 years...

I guess I'm doing it wrong

Thank you for showing me the error of my ways

Different is good.

 

[Das Shtig]

I'm sure there are more like you, but the bulk of those LX purchases were likely luxury items that get traded up when the new smell is over...

FWIW, the local Lexus manager told me they have the hardest time getting LX470 owners to trade up to newer vehicles—more so than any other Lexus model.

 

[jLB]

FWIW, the local Lexus manager told me they have the hardest time getting LX470 owners to trade up to newer vehicles—more so than any other Lexus model.

Well, if some "genius" hadn't put that "spindle"/"predator" grill on the LX570...

I'm not a huge fan of it on the smaller cars, but on the front of a big SUV it's the thing of nightmares.

 

[AlpineAccess]

My LC was original owner @ 19 years of ownership. The seven LXs I looked at before were on owner 3 or 4. I looked at 1 other LC that was a 2 owner. Just my experience.

Keep looking if you want one, it'll turn up.

 

[Kaleeb]

I thought economic factors might have caused the drop but hadn't even considered the Sequoia cannibalizing sales. I can imagine it being hard to sell a LC to a non-enthusiast when the cheaper Sequoia is sitting on the same lot.

I'll be happy with either a LC or LX it's more a matter of finding the right deal (in my price range, well maintained, not gonna break me to baseline it, etc.). Thanks for the insight everyone.

 

[AlpineAccess]

If memory serves me right, there was a tax credit for businesses, rolled out around that time incentivizing vehicle purchases that hit a certain weight. Lots of VW Touaregs, Cayennes, Expedition's, Suburbans, and Escalades sold using that write off. I believe the intention was to assist agricultural use vehicle purchases but many took advantage of it, as loop holes go.

 

[Somebodyelse5]

FWIW, the local Lexus manager told me they have the hardest time getting LX470 owners to trade up to newer vehicles—more so than any other Lexus model.

I thinks it generally true for all of the land cruisers... My mom was the original owner of her 2000 100 series LC, she promised it to my brother at college graduation.... when she was looking for a new vehicle, it was impossible, nothing else feels like a land cruiser. She ended up with a 200 series and she still talks about how much she misses her 100.

I kinda wish I had bought an LX for the added sound deadening and creature comforts.

Idk, I think the work of removing AHC might be worse than adding dynamat? jury is out on that one though

 

[suprarx7nut]

Idk, I think the work of removing AHC might be worse than adding dynamat? jury is out on that one though

Yeah, but I like the AHC system! I also added dynamat and MLV and Foam, but you still have the different glass, different trim weatherstripping all around (some of which can just be added). I don't know.

At the time of purchase the locking diff was my main selling point. And I am still very glad to have that.

 

[Somebodyelse5]

Yeah, but I like the AHC system! I also added dynamat and MLV and Foam, but you still have the different glass, different trim weatherstripping all around (some of which can just be added). I don't know.

At the time of purchase the locking diff was my main selling point. And I am still very glad to have that.

I forgot about the fancy acoustic glass! I have never been a fan of the AHC system, I've seen way too many ruined trips because of it and I don't want to fiddle with it. I guess it does ride real nice though...

 

[Das Shtig]

I forgot about the fancy acoustic glass! I have never been a fan of the AHC system, I've seen way too many ruined trips because of it and I don't want to fiddle with it. I guess it does ride real nice though...

My AHC broke two days ago. After 250k miles of service! That’s pretty reliable, and most conventional shocks would’ve likely needed to be replaced at least twice in that time. And no other system allows the car to lower on the highway, raise off road...

...along with the many safety systems built into it. For example, if I’m floating down the highway in Comfort at 70mph and the system detects an emergency maneuver, it immediately switches dampening to Sport+ to firm up the ride and keep me stable. Name any other available suspension that does that, AND works in concert with the ABS and VSC and ATRAC.... mic drop!

But to each his own, I’m not hatin’ on anyone else’s suspension. I get both perspectives, I just think AHC is misunderstood which leads to a fear of it which leads to ripping it out which leads to the dark side.