Water pump failure - how to test engine? (1 Viewer)

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I responded to a longer thread with my situation but figured i would post a new thread for easier viewing.

The engine shut off on the highway this week on my 07 LC with 180k miles. Wouldn't start and battery/alternator are fine.

My mechanic pulled off the various covers and parts to evaluate the timing belt, and says that the water pump failed and seized up, which broke the belt in 2 places and damaged the crankshaft and crank sensor.

My mechanic says there is no way to know if the engine is shot or not (ie bent valves) without putting on a new timing belt and water pump. Does anyone have any ideas on how to test the engine before spending all that time and money?

Because I know everyone will ask, my timing belt and water pump were done at 115k miles with Toyota parts. But........i dont put many miles on my car and 115k miles was 10 years ago. I had been planning on doing the 90k service soon and didn't think the number of years since last service were all that important. Apparently not.

Any tips on how to test the engine before dropping all the money on a 90k service for a potentially shot engine would be appreciated.
 
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The water pump "seizing" is unusual. In the rare case that a failure occurs, it is typically the timing belt tensioner or an idler pulley that fails.

I'd have the mechanic clarify what he means by the crankshaft is damaged. Or did he say camshafts?

Installing a timing belt and water pump and starting it up is likely the best way to confirm if damage has occurred. No need to do the full 90k service, just the timing belt kit with water pump, pulleys, and tensioner. Keep in mind if the motor is bad, they can pull the new timing belt kit off and put it on a donor motor you put in should you go that direction.
 

3_puppies

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has he spun the cams to make sure they rotate?

did you happen to be paying attention to the water temp?

is the VVTI engine is an interferance engine?

maybe @2001LC knows?
 
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flintknapper

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VVTi is definitely interference. You could try carefully spinning the crank with a bar or better yet, bore scoping each cylinder to see if there's any marks on the top of pistons.

Agree with this. Pull all the spark plugs (will make rotating the engine easier allow bore scoping).

Begin by turning the engine 4 full revolutions of the harmonic balancer. IF you feel nothing unusual....bore scope each cylinder by moving each one to bottom of its cylinder and inspecting the cylinder and top of each piston.

IF all is good, move to the cam sprockets, see if they will turn and not seize (hit the wall) not to be confused with valve spring compression.

IF that checks out....then installing a timing belt and water pump then cranking the engine (without spark plugs) will quickly give you your answer (if any damage has been done).
 
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That's bummer, I hope you get the LC back on the road again. I honestly haven't heard a mechanically-driven water pump to break. But I could be wrong. How many miles did the water pump run before it broke? Did the v-belt snap?
 
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I like the borescope idea unless you know someone that have it I say go for it or buy those cheap one on Amazon or H.B.
Here is my suggestion, rent or borrow a leak down tester and a small compressor if you don't have one. Locate #1 TDC and then back off about 2-3 splines on the crank sprocket you may need a second set of hands to hold the crank in place now hook up the leak down tester and open up the regulator to about 25 psi for now you will need to slowly turn the cam clockwise until you feel that that the cylinder is holding the input pressure you may now increase the pressure to about 50 psi and if it holds that cylinder should be good. Now you just have to repeat this procedure for the other cylinders you don't have to move the crank since all of the pistons is below TDC just make sure it doesn't rotate when you increase the cylinder pressure. Good luck and keep us posted.
 

flintknapper

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I like the borescope idea unless you know someone that have it I say go for it or buy those cheap one on Amazon or H.B.
Here is my suggestion, rent or borrow a leak down tester and a small compressor if you don't have one. Locate #1 TDC and then back off about 2-3 splines on the crank sprocket you may need a second set of hands to hold the crank in place now hook up the leak down tester and open up the regulator to about 25 psi for now you will need to slowly turn the cam clockwise until you feel that that the cylinder is holding the input pressure you may now increase the pressure to about 50 psi and if it holds that cylinder should be good. Now you just have to repeat this procedure for the other cylinders you don't have to move the crank since all of the pistons is below TDC just make sure it doesn't rotate when you increase the cylinder pressure. Good luck and keep us posted.

This would indeed be a way to detect any bent valves (assuming they were bent enough to no longer seat). I think it would be a good idea in 'addition' to bore scoping. Good suggestion. 👍
 
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Thanks for all the advice. I will pass this along. Hopefully he has the scope.

The water pump was put on in 2011 when the truck had 115k miles. It has 180k now.
 
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The mechanic is going to put on a cheap water pump and timing belt today and run a compression test. If it passes, he will take those items off and redo the full 90k service items, put it back together, and we will see if it starts up.

I have a bad feeling this engine is shot. I see a couple of options: replace with used motor for $3-4k, replaced with remanufactured motor for $5-6k, replace with brand new motor for $10k, or sell as is.

My rig is bone stock, 2007 with 180k miles with 99.9% on pavement and nothing hard offroad, fairly new BFG KO tires, and definitely good cosmetic condition for the age. Since 2011 and 115k miles, I have flushed the AHC fluid twice, replaced the diff/tcase fluid at least once and maybe twice, replaced tranny fluid, replaced coolant, repacked wheel bearings at least once, and new radiator recently.

I only put about 5-7k miles on this truck a year. It is my beater everyday car and I have a 2017 Mazda MX5 RF that I prefer to drive when the weather is nice and on the weekends. I was hoping to keep the LC for another 6 years until my son turns 16, then give it to him. But if the numbers really justify it, I could live with parting ways with the truck now.

Any thoughts what I should do? Thanks to everyone for their info.
 
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The mechanic is going to put on a cheap water pump and timing belt today and run a compression test. If it passes, he will take those items off and redo the full 90k service items, put it back together, and we will see if it starts up.

I have a bad feeling this engine is shot. I see a couple of options: replace with used motor for $3-4k, replaced with remanufactured motor for $5-6k, replace with brand new motor for $10k, or sell as is.

My rig is bone stock, 2007 with 180k miles with 99.9% on pavement and nothing hard offroad, fairly new BFG KO tires, and definitely good cosmetic condition for the age. Since 2011 and 115k miles, I have flushed the AHC fluid twice, replaced the diff/tcase fluid at least once and maybe twice, replaced tranny fluid, replaced coolant, repacked wheel bearings at least once, and new radiator recently.

I only put about 5-7k miles on this truck a year. It is my beater everyday car and I have a 2017 Mazda MX5 RF that I prefer to drive when the weather is nice and on the weekends. I was hoping to keep the LC for another 6 years until my son turns 16, then give it to him. But if the numbers really justify it, I could live with parting ways with the truck now.

Any thoughts what I should do? Thanks to everyone for their info.
Don't lose hope yet, your motor still has a chance.
 
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Bad news. Mechanic put a cheap tbelt and water pump on and ran a compression test. On Bank 2 one read like 50 psi, 4 and 8 read 0 psi. I'm sick to my stomach. He says this is conclusive and a total loss. Anyone disagree?
 
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Bad news. Mechanic put a cheap tbelt and water pump on and ran a compression test. On Bank 2 one read like 50 psi, 4 and 8 read 0 psi. I'm sick to my stomach. He says this is conclusive and a total loss. Anyone disagree?
It seems it is indeed dead unfortunately. That said based on what you described about the overall condition of the car, if it was my car I would get a used engine. Worst case, given the insane prices for the Land Cruisers right now you can sell it easily and recoup what you may need to invest on it to get it running.
 
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Could you ask him to show you at least one of the dead cylinder? Have you considered just getting a valve job rather than buying a used engine that you have no idea of the history? Get an estimate for a valve job and and compare it to just swapping a used engine. Do you trust the shop that's working on the LC?
 
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Gutted for you on this one. The optimist in me says that this failure is so rare on this car that there is a mechanic or YouTube mechanic out there that wants to take this apart to understand the failure and could cut a break on the labor to either rebuild or replace the engine. Might take some work asking around but you never know.

as mentioned above, resale right now is solid for the cruiser so fixing and selling will probably get you the best return (even tho you just took a hit, sorry brother).
 

flintknapper

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Could you ask him to show you at least one of the dead cylinder? Have you considered just getting a valve job rather than buying a used engine that you have no idea of the history? Get an estimate for a valve job and and compare it to just swapping a used engine. Do you trust the shop that's working on the LC?

It assumes no damage to the piston heads (that is how the valves would have been bent) but otherwise a consideration. Not sure how the cost to pull heads, do a valve job and reinstall would compare to swapping in a used engine....but it might be worth exploring.
 
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It assumes no damage to the piston heads (that is how the valves would have been bent) but otherwise a consideration. Not sure how the cost to pull heads, do a valve job and reinstall would compare to swapping in a used engine....but it might be worth exploring
My gut tells me that very minimal damaged to the piston since the engine stalled according to the OP, I have been down this rabbit hole many times and I think there is a good chance they could get away with just replacing the damaged valves and do a complete valve job. I am not familiar with the piston design on the 2UZ if they have valve reliefs on the piston or just a flat top, having relief on the piston would have very minimum or little damaged.

Just to get an idea of labor cost (book time) for a long block R&R versus cylinder head w/ valve job
Long block= 26.0 hours
Cylinder head gasket = 22 hours
Now you have to add any parts involved ang the cost of the valve job on top of the labor cost.
 
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